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A request for a better smiley menu in 1.0.

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:13 pm
by Fonzie
Hi,

I have a request for a better smiley menu in Adium 1.0. It goes like this. Ever used the iChat smiley menu ? It has an adjustable surface that changes depending on how many smileys is in it. Or atleast you can assign rows to it if you edit SmileyTable.plist. But anyways, I would love to see a menu with smileys that has a similar look as that of iChat's where there are say 10 smileys on the horizontal line and multiple rows on the vertical line.

How about it? The way it is now it can take forever to find a certain smiley in the loooooong list of say one of the Trillian smileysets or one of the Yahoo ones. I have a custom smileyset with a mix of MSN and Leopard iChat smileys and if I can't remember a certain smiley i am in for a long trip down the smiley list.

This is just to make things easier. I love using Adium 1.0 and have no issues with it-other than the missing vertical tabs ;) hehe.

Can you Adium developers incorporate something like this? A new smiley menu? I can upload a screenshot of the iChat smiley menu if don't know what I mean. But i'm sure you have used iChat in some point of your life, right ?

Thank you,
Allan

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:36 pm
by The_Tick
My use of ichat didn't include the "smily menu". So a screenshot would indeed be useful.

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:03 pm
by Fonzie
Okay, here is my iChat window as it looks today with an extended Smiley menu.

Take a look to see what I mean if you haven't already found out.

Image

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:48 pm
by meandcat
is that iChat 4.0? the tab bar on the left side looks like the leopard screenshots i saw on some news sites.

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:50 pm
by Fonzie
meandcat wrote:is that iChat 4.0? the tab bar on the left side looks like the leopard screenshots i saw on some news sites.


No that's just the regular iChat v.3 something. With a theme that unifies all windows and of course the latest Chax beta :)

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:08 pm
by ikaumeyer
Fonzie wrote:
meandcat wrote:is that iChat 4.0? the tab bar on the left side looks like the leopard screenshots i saw on some news sites.


No that's just the regular iChat v.3 something. With a theme that unifies all windows and of course the latest Chax beta :)


What theme is that? It looks very cool.

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:29 pm
by Fonzie
ikaumeyer wrote:
Fonzie wrote:
meandcat wrote:is that iChat 4.0? the tab bar on the left side looks like the leopard screenshots i saw on some news sites.


No that's just the regular iChat v.3 something. With a theme that unifies all windows and of course the latest Chax beta :)


What theme is that? It looks very cool.


It's SmoothUNO from here http://www.macthemesforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=16778714&highlight=smooth+uno
I just have to say that I use the Installer not the ShapeShifter guiKit because I disabled ShapeShifter. The Installer works fine. It has less options than the guiKit though. Use the UNO theme installer to uninstall this and all other themes that has been installed with a installer package. I don't know if the theme works with PPC or just Intel. I have an Intel Mac and it works super here. I think it only works with 10.4.8 and up though.

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:42 pm
by ikaumeyer
Fonzie wrote:
ikaumeyer wrote:
Fonzie wrote:
meandcat wrote:is that iChat 4.0? the tab bar on the left side looks like the leopard screenshots i saw on some news sites.


No that's just the regular iChat v.3 something. With a theme that unifies all windows and of course the latest Chax beta :)


What theme is that? It looks very cool.


It's SmoothUNO from here http://www.macthemesforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=16778714&highlight=smooth+uno
I just have to say that I use the Installer not the ShapeShifter guiKit because I disabled ShapeShifter. The Installer works fine. It has less options than the guiKit though. Use the UNO theme installer to uninstall this and all other themes that has been installed with a installer package. I don't know if the theme works with PPC or just Intel. I have an Intel Mac and it works super here. I think it only works with 10.4.8 and up though.


Awesome, this is now replacing UNO for me. Thanks!

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:05 pm
by Fonzie
ikaumeyer wrote:
Fonzie wrote:
ikaumeyer wrote:
Fonzie wrote:
meandcat wrote:is that iChat 4.0? the tab bar on the left side looks like the leopard screenshots i saw on some news sites.


No that's just the regular iChat v.3 something. With a theme that unifies all windows and of course the latest Chax beta :)


What theme is that? It looks very cool.


It's SmoothUNO from here http://www.macthemesforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=16778714&highlight=smooth+uno
I just have to say that I use the Installer not the ShapeShifter guiKit because I disabled ShapeShifter. The Installer works fine. It has less options than the guiKit though. Use the UNO theme installer to uninstall this and all other themes that has been installed with a installer package. I don't know if the theme works with PPC or just Intel. I have an Intel Mac and it works super here. I think it only works with 10.4.8 and up though.


Awesome, this is now replacing UNO for me. Thanks!


No problem. I am most happy about that it does not have that QuickTime corner bug were UNO wanted to make them square but couldn't, leaving a white area.

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:06 am
by bgannin
I wrote the current emoticon menu in Adium and I think I'm apt to address this.

iChat is in the enviable position of working with a very fixed set of items - in this case emoticons (though also services and more.) Thus they [and other clients] can do more with what they are working with.

Adium provides a customizable set of any number of emoticons. If you were to enable 4 default packs you would have between 40 and 60 emoticon items, several of which would be seeming duplicates. They would have no technical organization (by pack) and would have no indication of what service they are 'tied' to.

In addition, the iChat-style menu uses a more unique system that uses Carbon and some not often used APIs, which is more of a gray area. Is it technically impossible, no. Is it challenging, yes.

Given the technical and logistical reasons stated above I made the emoticon menu as it is and haven't redone it. Hopefully that makes sense.

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:10 am
by Crypt
Well if iChat is using Carbon api's for their emoticon menu (from what i'm reading), what is skype using as they have something very similiar in terms of implementation?

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:11 am
by Catfish_Man
Probably very similar methods.

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:26 am
by Fonzie
bgannin wrote
I wrote the current emoticon menu in Adium and I think I'm apt to address this.

iChat is in the enviable position of working with a very fixed set of items - in this case emoticons (though also services and more.) Thus they [and other clients] can do more with what they are working with.

Adium provides a customizable set of any number of emoticons. If you were to enable 4 default packs you would have between 40 and 60 emoticon items, several of which would be seeming duplicates. They would have no technical organization (by pack) and would have no indication of what service they are 'tied' to.

In addition, the iChat-style menu uses a more unique system that uses Carbon and some not often used APIs, which is more of a gray area. Is it technically impossible, no. Is it challenging, yes.

Given the technical and logistical reasons stated above I made the emoticon menu as it is and haven't redone it. Hopefully that makes sense


Hi,

I don't know if I made a mistake in explaining what I wanted. It has nothing to do with the emoticonset i'm using rather the style of menu with having 'x smileys from left to right and x smileys from top to bottom'. That the emoticon menu will be more rectangular and not such a long list. I find myself cursing each time I want to use a smiley that I can't remember because it takes forever to scroll through the list of smileys in Adium-if I have around 30 or so smileys which is not uncommon with the Yahoo or Trillian emoticonsets. It's faster to open the emoticonset and look at a plist ;) haha.

With iChat I have I quick overview of my smileys. I just prefer that over Adium's way.

Thanks

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:42 am
by mipadi
Fonzie wrote:I don't know if I made a mistake in explaining what I wanted. It has nothing to do with the emoticonset i'm using rather the style of menu with having 'x smileys from left to right and x smileys from top to bottom'. That the emoticon menu will be more rectangular and not such a long list. I find myself cursing each time I want to use a smiley that I can't remember because it takes forever to scroll through the list of smileys in Adium-if I have around 30 or so smileys which is not uncommon with the Yahoo or Trillian emoticonsets. It's faster to open the emoticonset and look at a plist ;) haha.

With iChat I have I quick overview of my smileys. I just prefer that over Adium's way.

Right, and bgannin is suggesting that the APIs used to draw that style of menu are technically difficult to implement.

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:07 am
by Fonzie
mipadi wrote:
Fonzie wrote:I don't know if I made a mistake in explaining what I wanted. It has nothing to do with the emoticonset i'm using rather the style of menu with having 'x smileys from left to right and x smileys from top to bottom'. That the emoticon menu will be more rectangular and not such a long list. I find myself cursing each time I want to use a smiley that I can't remember because it takes forever to scroll through the list of smileys in Adium-if I have around 30 or so smileys which is not uncommon with the Yahoo or Trillian emoticonsets. It's faster to open the emoticonset and look at a plist ;) haha.

With iChat I have I quick overview of my smileys. I just prefer that over Adium's way.

Right, and bgannin is suggesting that the APIs used to draw that style of menu are technically difficult to implement.


Okay... I just read something about emoticonsets and that threw me off. It may be difficult but the Adium team seems to have implemented alot of other stuff that I could imagine being difficult, like the hiding of the contactlist on screenedges. Surely(without hammering too much)it can be done albeit difficult-I understand that.

I just thought i'd threw it outthere because I have had it tangled up inside for so long that now it started to bother me. But I have no real reason to complain since i'm using the same emoticonset as i'm using in iChat and I can remember all the emoticons to a certain extent.

Thank you all for listening and explaining and a special thanks to bgannin whom I didn't understand at first. Now I can rest my eyes and sleep properly. ;)

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:19 am
by bgannin
I was just saying that iChat has like 20 emoticons overall, while Adium has potentially tons of them because of emoticonsets. Is that clearer?

(and yes, on some level, I'd like to see it too - just the amount of other projects + technical hurdles have combined to make it not a reality yet)

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:21 am
by bgannin
Crypt wrote:Well if iChat is using Carbon api's for their emoticon menu (from what i'm reading), what is skype using as they have something very similiar in terms of implementation?


Also MSN Messenger. That said, as noted, all worked with fixed sets of emoticons, unlike Adium.

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:04 am
by Fonzie
bgannin wrote:I was just saying that iChat has like 20 emoticons overall, while Adium has potentially tons of them because of emoticonsets. Is that clearer?

(and yes, on some level, I'd like to see it too - just the amount of other projects + technical hurdles have combined to make it not a reality yet)


I am just wondering what is easier to get a overview of. 100 smileys in a rectangular window or a list where one has to scroll what seems like forever.

The window could be ever-expanding depending on how many smileys are in it. Say you have the default Adium emoticonset and the MSN one - that's like 30 or 40(I haven't counted them FWIW). I doubt people use more than that although I did mention the Trillian and Yahoo emoticonset which has alot more - I was just mentioning the extreme case.

The smileymenu could have a "down-arrow" at the bottom of the menu that indicates 'more smileys'

I hope i'm not getting you too upset bgannin, just take this as a simple request. Ignore it if you like. I just thought that since so many people make topics for the things I find silly - like complaining about downgrading or whatever then I could make a topic aswell :)

ciao.

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:07 am
by Catfish_Man
Fonzie wrote: the Adium team seems to have implemented alot of other stuff that I could imagine being difficult, like the hiding of the contactlist on screenedges. ;)


You imagine correctly. Took ****ing forever to get most of the bugs worked out of that feature. Still glitches out occasionally.

Anyway, there's an NDA'd thing (two, in fact) that could help. Wait for Leopard, then ask again :)

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:09 am
by The_Tick
Fonzie wrote:
bgannin wrote:I was just saying that iChat has like 20 emoticons overall, while Adium has potentially tons of them because of emoticonsets. Is that clearer?


If I remember right.. go into trillian and enable 25 emoticon packs. Then go look. It should render about 1000 icons.

Maybe more.