cocoaforge

I think part of the problem (and why the devs may not be seeing the problem) is what happens if you have a long list of saved statuses.



Most of the time when I hit the Adium menu, it's to see what the status of my accounts is - am I connected on everything? am I having problems with MSN again? I have a lot of saved statuses but I almost never use 'em.

Now, when I want to see the account status, I have to go up to the top of the screen, then down to the bottom. It's a lot more navigation!

This could possibly be fixed by stuffing the account statuses into a sub-menu, as well - something like

[current status] > status submenu
[x/y accounts] > account submenu
Contacts > contact submenu
----
conversation1
conversation2
conversation3...

"x/y accounts" where x=currently connected, y=total accounts

So now everything is neatly folded, with only about 30 more pixels of navigation required to unfold anything.

Egypt Urnash wrote:I think part of the problem (and why the devs may not be seeing the problem) is what happens if you have a long list of saved statuses.

The solution to your particular problem is to create status groups for yourself.

I have yet to figure out how accounts should behave, submenu or not.

weriusaa wrote:Optclick contact list currently is useless for me, because it doesn't hide (fold) groups like regular contact list does (150 entries!? that's a clutter!).

I'm not pointing it out so you use it to navigate your contacts. I'm pointing it out so you can quickly click "Contact List…" at the very top/start of the list.

I was hopeing this problem is fixed in the latest update but it is not.

I'm really considering to return back to previous version until this will be solved...

zac wrote:

Egypt Urnash wrote:I think part of the problem (and why the devs may not be seeing the problem) is what happens if you have a long list of saved statuses.

The solution to your particular problem is to create status groups for yourself.

I have yet to figure out how accounts should behave, submenu or not.

Well, this problem didn't exist until the last update. I've never even been aware status groups exist; I just created all these statuses on an ad-hoc basis with the 'Custom...' entry.

Which makes it even more obvious that different usage patterns by the developers is making this "not a problem". You have all your statuses neatly packed in groups because you're intimately familiar with every feature of Adium; I have a big pile of groups because it sits in the background while I use Illustrator.

I'm suggesting dynamic menus with everything folded away: this solves the problem of 'really long, cluttered menus', while still exposing some of the information that used to be one click away - and making everything that's hidden just a short motion away.

I just tried stuffing all my custom statuses into a group, and the status of all my accounts is still halfway down the screen, what with all the basic states (and the utterly-useless-to-me iTunes state, which is inexplicably so important that it needs a separator bar above and below it) still being in the menu. And now I can't tell anything at a glance.

Egypt Urnash wrote:I'm suggesting dynamic menus with everything folded away: this solves the problem of 'really long, cluttered menus', while still exposing some of the information that used to be one click away - and making everything that's hidden just a short motion away.

If a handful (~10) of statuses and groups is making the menu take up the entire screen, your resolution is really, really small.

We're not going to make the status menu a menu of submenus. That's just too clumsy, and doesn't work right. The main goal is easy status changing, and easy access to open (or create) chats.

I was having a conversation with another developer last night about the complaints of the accounts being a sub-menu. If the argument is that you can't see account status very easily, how about something like ("Accounts 1 (online status icon) 3 (away status icon) 2 (offline status icon)") as the menu name?

zac wrote: I was having a conversation with another developer last night about the complaints of the accounts being a sub-menu. If the argument is that you can't see account status very easily, how about something like ("Accounts 1 (online status icon) 3 (away status icon) 2 (offline status icon)") as the menu name?

With just "Accounts" if everyone is in the same status. That seems reasonable to me.

Egypt Urnash wrote:You have all your statuses neatly packed in groups because you're intimately familiar with every feature of Adium; I have a big pile of groups because it sits in the background while I use Illustrator.

But if you select "Edit Status Menu" from the Status menu (or go to the Status Prefrences) the Add Group button is quite obvious. Now that you know it's there, you can use it, too. I don't think this is a hard-to-discover feature.

Zac and I were playing with UI ideas yesterday. I thought this one was kinda fun, but so far it's gotten pretty bad reviews

http://dscoder.com/HoverMenuThing.zip

Gads, here's a seemingly discombobulated post:

1) I really appreciate Adium and its developers, and that it is free software. I really and truly do! Many thanks to you all! And thanks in advance for looking into this.

2) Please bring back Quit, Hide, and Bring to Front on the status bar "menulet" icon. Please?

3) Re: But those features available from dock icon! ... Yes, yes they are, so why have a status bar icon? I mean, the statuses are also available from the dock, including a visible indication of my "away" status, so why even have a status bar icon? ... Maybe because it is useful?

4) Perhaps I'm in the minority, which I'm fully prepared to accept, but I have one (Jabber/GTalk) account, and I don't have a lot of wacky status messages, so the existing (1.1.4) menu is fine. Cluttered? Not in the least bit!

5) I'm happy with 1.1.4 and that's what I'm using. Is there a way to keep Adium from telling me there is a new version? Maybe I missed it, but I can't seem to find a way to disable automatic update checking. I think I can say "Skip this version" and not be bugged for a little while, but it doesn't appear to be a permanent solution.

6) I am not complaining. I am not. I love Adium! I'm just saying I'm pretty darned content with 1.1.4. It's been solid, stable, and I'm very happy with it. Sorry about that, I guess.

Cheers and Thanks Again!

I prefer the new menu. Simpler is better as far as I am concerned.

Why would you need to change the status for other accounts and leave one as it is?
eg:
MSN Away
AOL Away
Yahoo Available

Why the F@#$ would you need to do that?

guysullavin wrote:Why would you need to change the status for other accounts and leave one as it is?
eg:
MSN Away
AOL Away
Yahoo Available

Why the F@#$ would you need to do that?

I have several accounts that are used for work purposes. After hours I put those accounts into away status and leave my personal accounts in an available status while I'm still at the computer.

oh... im sorry

zac wrote: If a handful (~10) of statuses and groups is making the menu take up the entire screen, your resolution is really, really small.

15" Powerbook.

Nineteen custom statuses that I've stacked up without ever knowing or caring about 'status groups' puts 'accounts' and 'contacts' down in the lower 2/3 of my screen, which feels like forever when I'm sitting there with the trackpad.

What's this gonna be like on a 12/13" machine?

We're not going to make the status menu a menu of submenus. That's just too clumsy, and doesn't work right. The main goal is easy status changing, and easy access to open (or create) chats.

I was having a conversation with another developer last night about the complaints of the accounts being a sub-menu. If the argument is that you can't see account status very easily, how about something like ("Accounts 1 (online status icon) 3 (away status icon) 2 (offline status icon)") as the menu name?

That's a lot of what I suggested above - I think it'd be a big help, yeah! For me, the menu item is about 75% seeing/manipulating my handful of accounts, 25% modifying my status. I don't think I've ever started or switched to a conversation from it. Ooh, and somewhere in there is about 3-5% of "I want to change Adium's prefs... oh crap, can't get there from here. *tab to adium* *apple-,*"

Also, given that the default behavior of Adium is that custom statuses slowly pile up under the Evil Menu Duck, perhaps just putting the accounts and contacts submenus at the top of the menu instead of the bottom would help a LOT.

Yes, there are status groups; honestly, I tried fooling with them, and they're more than I want to have to think about on a day-to-day basis. Making and saving a custom status still ends up in the main list, so I'd have to go do maintenance on my IM statuses. I don't think 'clean up my IM program's status list' is something anyone wants to put on their to-do list. *grin*

(And I should note that generally you guys do well at making Adium Just Work; I really don't have to think about the program at all most of the time and am running on a lot of defaults, which I know means you guys have thought about it a LOT. The very rare occasions when I do have to think stick out; this is one of them.)

Egypt Urnash wrote:perhaps just putting the accounts and contacts submenus at the top of the menu instead of the bottom would help a LOT.

This seems reasonable.

You can get to Adium by opening the contact list shortcut. Is there a reason this isn't a valid solution?

Egypt Urnash wrote:perhaps just putting the accounts and contacts submenus at the top of the menu instead of the bottom would help a LOT.

I like this as well!

jaym wrote:

Egypt Urnash wrote:perhaps just putting the accounts and contacts submenus at the top of the menu instead of the bottom would help a LOT.

I like this as well!

Accounts... maybe. But why Contacts? I'm wondering why there is Contact List windows... "everything can be in submenus of menubar icon, right?"

All I want is to have Show/HIDE Contact List. Just give it back where it was as soon as possible and then you can think about other changes as long as you like ;-)

nemo wrote: All I want is to have Show/HIDE Contact List. Just give it back where it was as soon as possible and then you can think about other changes as long as you like ;-)

You're also ignoring what I think is the most common usage case. If I'm clicking on a menu item for the contact list, why should it ever hide it? I want to bring it to front, not toggle it.

You should seriously consider screen hiding if you want that kind of dynamic show/hide action from the contact list.

zac wrote:You can get to Adium by opening the contact list shortcut. Is there a reason this isn't a valid solution?

I didn't know I could! *grin*

Most of the icons crowding the right side of my screen have either a 'Preferences...' item, or an 'Open some system control panel...' item. I think I've been trained to get to certain kinds of settings that way.

On the other hand the only time I've ever actually felt the lack of this is when discussing Adium's UI in a context like this; most of the time when I need to frob Adium's prefs, I'm actually in a message window, and apple-, works just fine.

zac wrote:

nemo wrote: All I want is to have Show/HIDE Contact List. Just give it back where it was as soon as possible and then you can think about other changes as long as you like ;-)

You're also ignoring what I think is the most common usage case. If I'm clicking on a menu item for the contact list, why should it ever hide it? I want to bring it to front, not toggle it.

You should seriously consider screen hiding if you want that kind of dynamic show/hide action from the contact list.

My Desktop:

3/4 of my screen is Browser (Opera), rest is my working area where I download stuff, unrar it and reorganize it to some other place. And this working area is sometimes also place where I have my Contact List placed.

Now. If I have my CL showed I can't access these files so I have to Hide CL somehow. And Because I don't need to do anything with Adium, I also don't want to focus MenuBar to it to press some ninja-keyboard-shortcut you've already presented to me. I just want to ged rid of CL as quickly as possible.

Then, when my work with files is done (for now), I want my CL back, so I can see who's online without going through X submenus.

I'm not saying to myself "Well, next 25 minutes you'll be working with files, hide your contact list". I'm using Browser and in blink of an eye I'm downloading files. Then I just hide CL with 2 easy clicks and do my job.

Whithout HIDE CL feature I have to 1) Somehow click on Adium 2) put away mouse and press shortcut / move cursor all the way down to Dock, right-click on Adium and click CL / find Window/CL in the MenuBar


There are X ways to Show CL, 3 places with avaiable view to contacts (menubar icon, dock icon, contact list itself) and now exactly >0< ways to JUST HIDE it no matter if Adium is on the front or not.

I'm user of your product and I tried to tell you that your last "upgrade" made your product uncomfortable to use.

I expected you'll say something like "Oh, I'm sorry we didn't realised that. We'll fix it" (especially if the code is already written). Instead you're trying to convice me it is not bug but feature and I'm some sort of idiot unable to use computer the way YOU like it.

I really don't understand why it's such a problem.