MSN 8 beta with Webcam Support

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muretz
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MSN 8 beta with Webcam Support

Postby muretz » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:15 pm

In case some pleople still dont know of this, MSN 8 beta for Mac is out and it does have webcam support. I've tested it and it works great.
It would be great if Adium could make use of this protocol and make it available for us...

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=667394

Rusty Shackleford
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Re: MSN 8 beta with Webcam Support

Postby Rusty Shackleford » Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:51 pm

The application that's floating around isn't a beta, it's a very early internal release and is probably of pre-alpha quality. Who knows when, or even if, an official build will be released.

I don't believe there's anyway of making use of MSN Messenger's AV functionality in Adium.

Libpurple does now have some AV support for XMPP and it'll probably be expanded on, and i'm sure Adium will make use of it, in the future.

Frankly i don't care if Adium ever gets support for AV on WLM or any of the other legacy protocols. Far better to concentrate on open protocols like XMPP and SIP (and even then i'm too ugly to make use of the AV features :D).

It'll be the 2010s soon and all these IM companies are still stuck on a silo mentality from the early 90s. Time for them to die a death and let the open protocols rule i say.

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Re: MSN 8 beta with Webcam Support

Postby eykosioux » Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:51 pm

Telepathy already has A/V for MSN. Telepathy is open source. Just saying... http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/P ... %20Support

Personally though, I don't like the attitude of:
Frankly i don't care if Adium ever gets support for AV on WLM or any of the other legacy protocols. Far better to concentrate on open protocols like XMPP and SIP (and even then i'm too ugly to make use of the AV features ).


I think if he's asking about A/V on MSN, it implies that he's interested, so your not being interested is irrelevant in this thread. Just the same way I wouldn't go to the Gadu-Gadu, MyspaceIM or whatever other protocol I'm not intested in and say I'm not interested in whatever feature someone is requesting. I think it's simply rude.

It's a pitty I don't know of any telepathy client for Mac, but for now on my Linux box I'm partly happy that Empathy can do A/V with my MSN contacts. Is it as important as being able to send text? No. But we can already send text. What's the next important feature? Animated smileys? Thank you but no. Give the guy a break, he's interested in A/V, and so are so many others.

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Robby
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Re: MSN 8 beta with Webcam Support

Postby Robby » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:40 pm

Rusty Shackleford wrote:I don't believe there's anyway of making use of MSN Messenger's AV functionality in Adium.

Libpurple does now have some AV support for XMPP and it'll probably be expanded on, and i'm sure Adium will make use of it, in the future.

eykosioux wrote:Telepathy already has A/V for MSN. Telepathy is open source. Just saying... http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/P ... %20Support

Yes, if they are going to be any AV efforts they will be most likely based on libpurple which itself might get MSN support sometime.
I'm no developer but I'm sure building on yet another framework but be non-trivial to say the least.

eykosioux wrote:I think if he's asking about A/V on MSN, it implies that he's interested, so your not being interested is irrelevant in this thread. Just the same way I wouldn't go to the Gadu-Gadu, MyspaceIM or whatever other protocol I'm not intested in and say I'm not interested in whatever feature someone is requesting. I think it's simply rude.

I think Rusty Shackleford ist just trying to make the point that it might be a better idea to just go along with an open protocol instead of trying to reverse-engineer all the closed protocols. It makes sense to me. :)

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Re: MSN 8 beta with Webcam Support

Postby JML » Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:51 am

If you really need or want A/V support you will probably need to wait for the offical Microsoft Messenger for Mac to be released. It should be out soon, but people have been saying that since January....

As amazing as Adium is, Libpurple appears to be uninterested in A/V as a whole, in my opinion. I still believe Adium is the best for looks and functionality (even compared to 1st party apps like MfM, AIM, etc), but unfortuanatly I doubt they will get A/V anytime soon if they continue to partner with Libpurple :sad: (and I want to mention that I am just stating my opinion on the apparent time frame of A/V support, but I realize that opinions differ on the perceived need or importance of A/V)

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Robby
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Re: MSN 8 beta with Webcam Support

Postby Robby » Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:55 am

JML wrote:<snip>
Libpurple appears to be uninterested in A/V as a whole, in my opinion.

Pidgin 2.6.0 supports A/V for XMPP: http://adium.im/blog/2009/08/pidgin-2-6-0-and-adium-vv/. Work on support for closed protocols like MSN, Yahoo is ongoing.

JML wrote:I still believe Adium is the best for looks and functionality (even compared to 1st party apps like MfM, AIM, etc), but unfortuanatly I doubt they will get A/V anytime soon if they continue to partner with Libpurple
<snip>

We'll see... :)

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Re: MSN 8 beta with Webcam Support

Postby JML » Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:59 pm

Robby wrote:JML wrote:
I still believe Adium is the best for looks and functionality (even compared to 1st party apps like MfM, AIM, etc), but unfortuanatly I doubt they will get A/V anytime soon if they continue to partner with Libpurple
<snip>

We'll see...


I really really want to be wrong in this case! Hopefully I am :grin:

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Re: MSN 8 beta with Webcam Support

Postby eykosioux » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:40 am

Robby wrote:Yes, if they are going to be any AV efforts they will be most likely based on libpurple which itself might get MSN support sometime.
I'm no developer but I'm sure building on yet another framework but be non-trivial to say the least.

What I mean to say is that other open source protocols take the trouble to implement features that libpurple devs have for years considered unimportant or sometimes useless or unnecessary. I know it is not trivial to implement it, but even in Pidgin there's an ongoing effort to implement a Telepathy plugin that would allow Pidgin to "benefit from the advantages provided by the Telepathy stack", as they put it. Not that I'm expecting Adium to do the same, again, I'm just saying. (I just wish there was a good Mac Telepathy client that was similar to Adium, but that is asking too much.

Robby wrote:
eykosioux wrote:I think if he's asking about A/V on MSN, it implies that he's interested, so your not being interested is irrelevant in this thread. Just the same way I wouldn't go to the Gadu-Gadu, MyspaceIM or whatever other protocol I'm not intested in and say I'm not interested in whatever feature someone is requesting. I think it's simply rude.

I think Rusty Shackleford ist just trying to make the point that it might be a better idea to just go along with an open protocol instead of trying to reverse-engineer all the closed protocols. It makes sense to me. :)

And what's the status specification-wise on Jabber A/V. This is a honest question, the last time I checked, there was no standard for Jabber A/V and there were various implementations out there. I remember reading that libpurple would wait for an implementation to be standardised or to pick up momentum before thinking of implementing it, I may be wrong on that.

Not to say libpurple should do this or that, but A/V isn't something that just came up. Back in 2004-2005, the gaim fork Gaim-VV (video and voice support) focused on A/V and was to be backported to libgaim (now libpurple). All I remember is at some point they were merged back into libgaim (I'm not aware of the reasons or why), and since then there was nothing more to be heard of A/V in libgaim, nor in libpurple after the name change.

In all that time, aMSN implemented A/V and the P2P protocol that allowed for both "fast" file transfers and A/V, if I'm not mistaken. Other open source projects have also partially implemented some functionality. Kopete has Webcam support, although I'm not sure how good as I've not really used it. Mercury Messenger I think also has some support for Video conferencing. Now with the Telepathy framework, the butterfly plugin handles A/V on MSN I think. Libpurple? Don't even bother asking. Oh, and Emesene also has video support, and it's a very young project. The only reason libpurple doesn't have A/V is because they don't care about it. Others do, others work on it. Simple. Nobody is being rude or disrespectful or unthankful by saying what we've observed...

Robby wrote:Pidgin 2.6.0 supports A/V for XMPP: http://adium.im/blog/2009/08/pidgin-2-6-0-and-adium-vv/. Work on support for closed protocols like MSN, Yahoo is ongoing.

Telepathy and Farsight constitute the first implementation of the Jingle XMPP protocol. If I'm not mistaken, libpurple implements A/V for XMPP through Farsight2 (again, Telepathy). Also, there's an MSN Video plugin for Farsight2. Empathy (GNOME) implements MSN Video.

Libpurple development is slow, there's no hiding that. I reckon by the time I'm able to videoconference from any libpurple client, I'll already have kids. And I'm not asking them to do it now, that would be too much to ask, I'm simply saying what I (and probably most of you) have observed for the past 5 or 6 years. Too bad I'm not a good programmer, I'd readily work on something like this.

I only wish I could run some of those linux apps on my macbook, but I don't fancy using X11 and certainly don't fancy the inconsistent look between apps, I like Cocoa apps, too sad these are mostly GTK.

But I think it would really help if some people stopped talking about A/V as if it was some sort of fringe science or voodoo... Other IM clients have implemented it, period. Asking users to program it themselves is... well, let's just say it's not very helpful.

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zac
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Re: MSN 8 beta with Webcam Support

Postby zac » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:45 am

Pidgin already has voice/video, in the latest 2.6.0 release it was added for XMPP. It's just a manner of getting it working on OS X, writing an Adium GUI, testing it, and releasing it. You know, "simple" things.

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Re: MSN 8 beta with Webcam Support

Postby iBozz » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:45 am

I've tried the latest version of MSN with webcam and it didn't work. Whether that is just me and my mate or a bug in the version we tried (v8 beta) I don't know, but is there any news yet as to if and when Adium will cope with webcam/video? I'm tiold that iChat does, but I don't use that as i prefer Adium.

I've had a browse around the forum but not found anything, so apologies if this has been asked and answered before.

I'm using a 27" i7 iMac with Adium 1.3.10 under MacOSX.6.3

Thanks in advance.
27" i7 iMac under MacOSX.6.3; G4 eMac and G4 Tower under MacOSX.4.11

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Robby
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Re: MSN 8 beta with Webcam Support

Postby Robby » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:37 am

iBozz wrote:I've tried the latest version of MSN with webcam and it didn't work. Whether that is just me and my mate or a bug in the version we tried (v8 beta) I don't know, but is there any news yet as to if and when Adium will cope with webcam/video? I'm tiold that iChat does, but I don't use that as i prefer Adium.

I've had a browse around the forum but not found anything, so apologies if this has been asked and answered before.
<snip>


Hi, actually I have read mostly negative reactions to the MSN 8 beta.

The relevant blog entry can be found in this thread.

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Simba Cub
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Re: MSN 8 beta with Webcam Support

Postby Simba Cub » Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:20 am

libyahoo2 (http://libyahoo2.sourceforge.net/) has support for Yahoo! webcam :)



Rich::

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Re: MSN 8 beta with Webcam Support

Postby JML » Sat May 15, 2010 3:36 am

Thats great that Yahoo! is supported, hopefully MSN is done or on its way. But as Zac wrote a few months ago, there are those few things to do to get it working on Adium.... (few in parts, but each part is probably a feat on its own)

I am not a developer and have no clue on programming, but I am curious, how many people does Adium have working on code? I mean in general, not necessarily on webcam integration.

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Re: MSN 8 beta with Webcam Support

Postby iBozz » Sat May 15, 2010 7:04 am

JML wrote:Thats great that Yahoo! is supported, hopefully MSN is done or on its way. But as Zac wrote a few months ago, there are those few things to do to get it working on Adium.... (few in parts, but each part is probably a feat on its own)

I am not a developer and have no clue on programming, but I am curious, how many people does Adium have working on code? I mean in general, not necessarily on webcam integration.


If anyone does have useful amendments, add-ons, tweaks, etc to the basic Adium I would love to hear them - any advice is always most welcome.

But, like that scrupulously honest Scholar JML admits, my programming and technical skills are a fair way south of zero so any guide would need to be a very very very very simple, step by step guide which makes no assumption whatsoever that I would have any clue what you meant or it would cause my poor little addled brain-cell to overheat. :roll:

I'm good at making coffee, though, even though I do say so myself! :mrgreen:
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Robby
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Re: MSN 8 beta with Webcam Support

Postby Robby » Sun May 16, 2010 1:33 am

JML wrote:<snip>
I am not a developer and have no clue on programming, but I am curious, how many people does Adium have working on code? I mean in general, not necessarily on webcam integration.

With the exception of David Smith – Apple forbids it – the guys listed as "Lead Developers" and "Developers" http://trac.adium.im/wiki/AdiumTeam commit code on and off. Every now and then we receive patches from contributors. Maybe you'd find it interesting to actually see what is done, it's there for everyone to have a look: http://hg.adium.im/. Also see http://trac.adium.im/wiki/FollowingDevelopment.

Regarding Audio and Video chat, it looks like a guy not with the Team (yet) is working on implementing it.


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