cocoaforge

What he's saying is that he cares about all the online contacts, and none of the offline ones... and that if he were to pick, say, the 10 who are most often online and focus on those, he might miss one who only signs on once every three months.

This is an argument for the contact list to continue to exist in some form... which of course it will

Without having read everything here, my thoughts...

The things I do with an IM app, in order of importance/frequency, are: Communicate (text), check status (implicit in communicating, explicity for away-message-checking, explicit in status notification of arrivals); occasionally voice chat, send images, check profiles, maybe even transfer files.

So, as far as interfaces, I definitely need a way to communicate text (I say text because it's easily buffered and multi-threaded, whereas voice/video is not), and I'd like it to be easy to navigate [tabs], unobtrusive most of the time so I can interleave IM with other things I'm working on; and I need a way to know if some number of people are available (maybe five or ten I always want to know about, and any number I want to check on now and again).

For me, I want an unobtrusive contact list becuase I always want its information available, but only need it - or want it at the fore of my attention - now and again. (A large part of the information I want I can get from event notifications; otherwise, I want it as an at-my-fingertips reference, and a mostly-transparent, small window that can sit above whatever I'm doing (browsing or writing, most likely) without obscuring is ideal of the options available at the moment.)

(Sorry that got somewhat long; hopefully it's at least some new ideas.)

tbsmkdn wrote: But why would you want a modal dialog?

One situation that comes to mind is whenever I'm saving, printing or otherwise making some sort of "snapshot" of a document.

evands wrote:What he's saying is that he cares about all the online contacts, and none of the offline ones... and that if he were to pick, say, the 10 who are most often online and focus on those, he might miss one who only signs on once every three months.

This is an argument for the contact list to continue to exist in some form... which of course it will

Got it in one, Evan.

I'm glad to know that the contact list will remain available as at least one option in more or less it's current form, whatever happens. I never really thought it would leave, but I did want to make sure that this particular point of view was understood.

yes, this is the way it looks with me.
when I browse the web, when I work with any other software, my list is always visible.

I'd like to have a better way to get this, I think there might be a future into a dockable list. or maybe there might be a better way to organise the list.
There sure is room for improvement, but it's pretty hard not to loose functionality...

btw, if you're looking for another question like that; you could ask if small applications have to follow the big ones (see what microsoft implements, everyone pushes to get too...) how far should devs follow the crazy ideas of others

oddfellow wrote:The purpose, as far as I was aware, of having a highly customizable contact list was not so that users can get it as invisible as possible, but so that users can make it as easy as possible to ascertain important information

User's can ascertain contact presence perfectly fine with a non-customizable contact list.

oddfellow wrote:Requiring user interaction to make the contact list visible or in some other way bring up that information defeats one of the (but not the only) most important purposes of that UI element.

Even a standard window requires some degree of interaction to keep visible (unless you have massive or multiple screens).

Not that I'm a fan of the docking contact list though. I understand that it makes un-obscuring easier, but really it's just redundant and non-standard window management.

have the devs come up with any ideas on this matter?

if so id love to hear them... im not saying this in a snooty way, id really like to hear what kinda ideas are floating out there!

edit: i would understand if they were top secret!

Adam Iser wrote:

oddfellow wrote:The purpose, as far as I was aware, of having a highly customizable contact list was not so that users can get it as invisible as possible, but so that users can make it as easy as possible to ascertain important information

User's can ascertain contact presence perfectly fine with a non-customizable contact list.

Absolutely. But making it customizable, and especially allowing different colored highlights for different statuses, allows much quicker recognition (for me, anyway), than the simple icons that AIM uses (or used, last time I used it).

Edit - incidentally, 'ascertain' is entirely too entertaining a word

Adam Iser wrote:

oddfellow wrote:Requiring user interaction to make the contact list visible or in some other way bring up that information defeats one of the (but not the only) most important purposes of that UI element.

Even a standard window requires some degree of interaction to keep visible (unless you have massive or multiple screens).

Well, I just keep my windows slightly away from the left edge of the screen. I only need to give input if an application automatically places them over there. I can usually recognize who someone is on my list by their contact icon and the first few letters of their alias (just the first letter for many). Of course, that would get harder and harder the more contacts you have.

Meh. So long as I can still do what I do now, I'm not fussed. I'll be interested to see what you come up with though.

Since this is my first post here, I'll start by just saying I'm an on and off user of Adium X (vs. iChat/MSN) The reason I keep going back and forth is that it takes just too much time to get Adium the way you want it and working, and in reality, all the changes you can make are never perfect or easy- You wind up with something you think you might want, but it's not nearly as good as if the developers had just made it that way in the first place.

So, to get back to the topic, I love some of these ideas, and can't believe those of you who bother to post just to say you don't want anything changed (now there's a constructive brainstorming session). However, I don't want these all as additional options- Adium should pick the best, and make that the standard, rather then following in the bloated Trillian path (although I used Trillian for windows for the same reason I use Adium for OS X- It supports all the different standards).

As for my input, I really like the smart folder/regular folder approach with a library for everyone. Being able to tear those off is also a good direction to consider, but not essential. Dashboard is a wonderful idea for a contact list's location, as it displays the quickly needed information right now nicely, whereas right now you've gotta hunt for your contact list (have some pity on us 12" Powerbook/ibook users!). If not, what about making the dock-like auto-hiding contact list the standard rather then the exception (I know there are some technical issues there, but hey) Hope any of this helps.

-Chris

cdbeckman wrote:Since this is my first post here, I'll start by just saying I'm an on and off user of Adium X (vs. iChat/MSN) The reason I keep going back and forth is that it takes just too much time to get Adium the way you want it and working, and in reality, all the changes you can make are never perfect or easy- You wind up with something you think you might want, but it's not nearly as good as if the developers had just made it that way in the first place.

So, to get back to the topic, I love some of these ideas, and can't believe those of you who bother to post just to say you don't want anything changed (now there's a constructive brainstorming session). However, I don't want these all as additional options- Adium should pick the best, and make that the standard, rather then following in the bloated Trillian path (although I used Trillian for windows for the same reason I use Adium for OS X- It supports all the different standards).

As for my input, I really like the smart folder/regular folder approach with a library for everyone. Being able to tear those off is also a good direction to consider, but not essential. Dashboard is a wonderful idea for a contact list's location, as it displays the quickly needed information right now nicely, whereas right now you've gotta hunt for your contact list (have some pity on us 12" Powerbook/ibook users!). If not, what about making the dock-like auto-hiding contact list the standard rather then the exception (I know there are some technical issues there, but hey) Hope any of this helps.

-Chris

hit cmd+/ and the list is right in front

The_Tick wrote:

cdbeckman wrote:Since this is my first post here, I'll start by just saying I'm an on and off user of Adium X (vs. iChat/MSN) The reason I keep going back and forth is that it takes just too much time to get Adium the way you want it and working, and in reality, all the changes you can make are never perfect or easy- You wind up with something you think you might want, but it's not nearly as good as if the developers had just made it that way in the first place.

So, to get back to the topic, I love some of these ideas, and can't believe those of you who bother to post just to say you don't want anything changed (now there's a constructive brainstorming session). However, I don't want these all as additional options- Adium should pick the best, and make that the standard, rather then following in the bloated Trillian path (although I used Trillian for windows for the same reason I use Adium for OS X- It supports all the different standards).

As for my input, I really like the smart folder/regular folder approach with a library for everyone. Being able to tear those off is also a good direction to consider, but not essential. Dashboard is a wonderful idea for a contact list's location, as it displays the quickly needed information right now nicely, whereas right now you've gotta hunt for your contact list (have some pity on us 12" Powerbook/ibook users!). If not, what about making the dock-like auto-hiding contact list the standard rather then the exception (I know there are some technical issues there, but hey) Hope any of this helps.

-Chris

hit cmd+/ and the list is right in front

I think he meant in the whole system.
And dock-like auto-hiding is coming in 0.9.

Good to hear about that dock-like contact list, I'll use it!

What about having a dock like interface with the groups as icons, and then when you mouse-over the groups it drops the list of who is in that group? My Dock is at the bottom, so I'm picturing this Contact Dock being on the right side, dropping a list on each mouse-over of the group icon to the left. That way, you could have first a library icon, then a smart group you've set up that only lists those people you've talked to in the past _____ month, and then a group with your family, and then a group with your coworkers, and so on. Maybe it could then list in a little number by each icon how many are online in each group (like the Mail-icon does for how many unread messages there are).

I also have an idea for the dashboard functionality, but I'll post it over in the dashboard widget thread, since it has nothing to do with getting rid of the contact list.

-Chris

edit: grammar changes, and one more idea: you could make each group icon click-able instead of mouse-over activated. Might be less confusing that way.

eh, heck with it, I'll post the dashboard idea here- the other thread seems to be more alpha testing a 3rd party widget (although whoever is making that, if you want to use these ideas, please do!)

Just have a widget on the dashboard that lists a certain group. It'd be self-contained (unless you add someone else to the group, and then that's your fault), and would give you a quick view of the info you need (that's what dashboard is all about). I don't want my whole contact list on the dashboard, I want to be able to quickly tell if this this and this person are online. Just an idea.

-Chris

I'm with cdbeckman; I want a Dashboard widget that shows me the status of my type 1 contact(s). (Basically, I'd just like to see my girlfriend's away message written in the corner whenever I got into the Dashboard.) Double clicking the icon should open a message window out in regular user space.

It also seems like the future should involve some kind of Library/Smart Buddy Groups/Buddy Groups system. Is someone working on that? Or is that all top secret? (Hmm… Is there such a thing as a bottom secret? Maybe it means a secret openly discussed on a project forum…)