cocoaforge

Well if we hate the Drawer idea, but want to remain consistant with Apple's current interface guidelines, then I still say a column on the left or right such as that used by Mail 2 to display Mailboxes would be best.

The idea here is that we have tabs that do not truncate the name of the users, unless the user him/herself manually adjusts the width of the "mailbox" column themselves. I'm just an advocate for the Apple Human Interface Guidlines, and feel that truncating names is not pretty.

Junpei wrote:Doesn't iChat 3 use drawers for something similar? I could swear it does...

Yes, as does Automator (a "brand new" app). iCal and Preview do as well. And other apps like OmniOutliner 3 use drawers.

Not saying that Adium should (I agree that it'd be a bad addition, for reasons that were covered over and over again the last time this topic was brought up) just that they're still being used ... albeit for better reasons.

Did you guys see the Trac tickets? They are working on a solution (ie having the window auto resize or something like that).

Since it seems a lot of you haven't debated tabs vs list before, I'll try and fill everyone in to save us all time.

List:
(1) (GOOD) Cleanly handles large amounts of open conversations.
(2) (GOOD) No custom UI elements needed.
(3) (BAD) Takes up more space.
(4) (BAD) Status of all open chats not visible at once (due to scrolling).

Tabs:
(1) (BAD) Poorly handles large amounts of open conversations.
(2) (BAD) Requires custom UI elements.
(3) (GOOD) Takes up less space.
(4) (GOOD) Status of all open chats visible at once (albeit without names).

The thing everyone needs to realize is that neither solution is agreeably better in all situations.

A few additional points:
• Your opinions contribute nothing to a debate without sound reasoning to back them up. Saying "Well, I like Tabs!" or "A list is much better!" is worthless, don't even post it.

• Drawers have nothing to do with the lists vs tabs debate, as lists can be implemented perfectly fine without using a drawer. Saying "Drawers are agains the HIG!" or "I hate drawers!" is worthless, don't even post it.

• HIG stands for Human Interface Guidelines, not Human Interface Rules. Applications are free to violate the guidelines, and may actually be better when certain guidelines are not followed.

• Trying to turn Adium into Proteus is a bad idea and will only serve to destroy both applications in the long term. If you prefer a drawer with a list by all means switch back to Proteus.

Honestly, I'd rather see 3 unique, lightweight IM clients than one bloated app that tries to please everyone. Who's with me?

Adam Iser wrote:Honestly, I'd rather see 3 unique, lightweight IM clients than one bloated app that tries to please everyone. Who's with me?

Sure, especially if 1 of those unique lightweight IM clients is solid enough and well thought out enough to please 80% or more of IM users

MBHockey wrote:The way Proteus handles multiple messages in one window is absolutely hideous, and i doubt you'll ever see something like that in Adium.

I much prefer the draggable, rearrangeable tabs of Adium to Proteus' antiquated drawer of contacts.

its pure genius, apple liked it so much the hired the developer

medicine wrote:

MBHockey wrote:The way Proteus handles multiple messages in one window is absolutely hideous, and i doubt you'll ever see something like that in Adium.

I much prefer the draggable, rearrangeable tabs of Adium to Proteus' antiquated drawer of contacts.

its pure genius, apple liked it so much the hired the developer

*sigh*. You don't hire someone because of one ui element they made. You hire someone because they are knowledgeable in their field, and are able to expand to what you and your company/department needs.

Justin got hired on for q/e first, not dev. So obviously if they wanted him to work on iChat right off and make it proteus, they would not have done that. iChat is a great client, it does what it is designed to do.

Your statement is only meant to cause more flames, and isn't helpful to the thread.

Serioiusly, Adam pretty much covered everything. As of right this second, if you want a drawer then fire or proteus is your best bet. If you want tabs, both fire and adium has them, albeit fire uses adium tabs.

If you want Adium though, use Adium. Realize we won't be putting a drawer in, but are looking into other solutions for the same problem.

I think Adam has said pretty much everything that needs to be said on the topic; Adium will not be attempting to be all things to all people, but improved tabs are on the roadmap.