cocoaforge

Can someone explain the purpose of that bar with the two pop-up menus that sometimes appears at the top of message windows? It seems to contain the sender's IM accounts in one menu and the recipient's IM accounts in the other, but I can't tell why it appears when it does, nor exactly what I can do with it.

Most of the time, there's only one item in each pop-up menu. I was going to file a bug asking that this bar not be shown in situations like that, but I figured I'd better find out what the purpose of that bar is to begin with before I start suggesting changes.

My best guess is that it' supposed to provide a way to choose which account to communicate from and/or to, but since the bar only(?) appears once a conversation has already started, I'm unsure of the value or sensibility of such a feature.

So, can anyone fill me in? What am I missing?

There are always 2 or more items in at least one of the lists.

In 1.0, one or the other will appear independently, so they will always only appear if there are 2 or more items.

It is indeed for selecting source account and destination contact. When you receive a message, it is for determining how you reply -- it is generally more useful when you open a message window yourself.

evands wrote:There are always 2 or more items in at least one of the lists.

Hm, maybe I've just been looking in one menu. If I find an instance where there's just one item in both, I'll file a bug

It is indeed for selecting source account and destination contact. When you receive a message, it is for determining how you reply -- it is generally more useful when you open a message window yourself.

I'm not sure I'd ever want to reply to an IM account other than the one that the original message came from, but maybe some people do. Anyway, what I'd like is some normalization of this feature. I'd like to be able to request that little bar, in the rare case where I need it, at any time in any window. But otherwise, I'd like it never to appear unrequested. (The default behavior can be left as-is; I just want a pref.) Shall I "trac" it, or is such an option already planned?

JCS wrote:I'm not sure I'd ever want to reply to an IM account other than the one that the original message came from, but maybe some people do.

Indeed.

I'd like to be able to request that little bar, in the rare case where I need it, at any time in any window.

You can. Any behavior that would open the window -- double clicking in the contact list, or File->New Chat -- will show it. If you add the Message item to your chat window's toolbar via Customize Toolbar, clicking that will show it.

But otherwise, I'd like it never to appear unrequested.

It goes away automatically as soon as you send a message.

(The default behavior can be left as-is; I just want a pref.) Shall I "trac" it, or is such an option already planned?

You can trac it, but I'll close it as wontfix unless you can convince me that there need to be a preference for this sane and unobtrusive behavior.

evands wrote:

I'd like to be able to request that little bar, in the rare case where I need it, at any time in any window.

You can. Any behavior that would open the window -- double clicking in the contact list, or File->New Chat -- will show it.

Hm, that's a bit non-obvious, but okay.

If you add the Message item to your chat window's toolbar via Customize Toolbar, clicking that will show it.

I just added it to my toolbar, then double-clicked a contact to start a new message, then clicked the Message toolbar item and nothing happened. I guess the contact I double-clicked to create the window has to have more than one IM account?

evands wrote:

(The default behavior can be left as-is; I just want a pref.) Shall I "trac" it, or is such an option already planned?

You can trac it, but I'll close it as wontfix unless you can convince me that there need to be a preference for this sane and unobtrusive behavior.

The only thing that remains obtrusive (and the primary motivator for this entire thread, truth be told) is the fact that the bar appears in new windows without being requested. I quickly discovered that it disappears as soon as I reply, but all that's done is created an unbearable urge for me to reply with something, anything, in each incoming message window just to get that bar to disappear! (How many reflexive "hey" replies has this feature caused among similarly anal-retentive users, I wonder? )

JCS wrote:

evands wrote:

I'd like to be able to request that little bar, in the rare case where I need it, at any time in any window.

You can. Any behavior that would open the window -- double clicking in the contact list, or File->New Chat -- will show it.

Hm, that's a bit non-obvious, but okay.

Well, the selector bar isn't intended to be something you set out to show -- it should display in intuitive situations in which you might potentially want to select the source or destination. Double clicking a contact in your list is definitely such a situation.

I guess the contact I double-clicked to create the window has to have more than one IM account?

Right. More than one IM account for the contact, or more than one connected account on your side which could message that contact (i.e. multiple AIM accounts online for an AIM contact).

The only thing that remains obtrusive (and the primary motivator for this entire thread, truth be told) is the fact that the bar appears in new windows without being requested. I quickly discovered that it disappears as soon as I reply, but all that's done is created an unbearable urge for me to reply with something, anything, in each incoming message window just to get that bar to disappear!

It only appears in new windows where it is potentially needed, though. If it stayed there continuously, I would totally understand your annoyance at it... but I just can't agree that it's an annoyance when you don't have to interact with it at all to accept its default behavior and make it go away.

evands wrote:It only appears in new windows where it is potentially needed, though. If it stayed there continuously, I would totally understand your annoyance at it... but I just can't agree that it's an annoyance when you don't have to interact with it at all to accept its default behavior and make it go away.

Think of it this way: Adium is repeatedly presenting me with a piece of UI that I never want to use. Each time, it plops it up there again. Wanna pick from one of these menus? No? Okay. Wanna pick from one of these menus? Still no? Okay. Wanna pick from one of these menus? ...

Why this particular piece of UI? Why is it so important that it has to appear every time? Well, arguably, because it's not obvious to a new user how to request that UI, or even that the features it provides exist in the first place. So having it pop-up by default may be okay.

But the argument for a preference is that this kind of unrequested UI appearance is a nuisance to users who a) know about the feature already, and b) never plan to use it.

You "just can't agree that it's an annoyance" to you, maybe, but there's no sense disagreeing with me about how I feel about it The question is, how many other people feel the same way, and is it worthwhile to add a pref?

Coming at it from another angle: If I supplied a patch that checked an undocumented plist entry before deciding to show that bar, would you accept it?

Though it has never really annoyed me, I'd have to say you still make a good point about this 'unrequested UI appearance'.

It has annoyed me on occasion. I separated my buddy lists, and occasionally I have IM'd someone from an account I didn't want to use for that individual, because the top choice was the account they used to be on, instead of the account I switched their name to.

Hmm, it doesn't really annoy me at all, but I could see "to" and "from" toolbar icons or something. That would keep the functionality for those who need it without having to add any more clutter to the prefs. I honestly couldn't care less either way, but that's a suggestion to resolve it for those who do.

I can't really see an issue at all. So you click a meta-contact and get a bar that appears to choose the account, the moment you send the first message it vanishes. I rearely notice it is there, as I usually look at what I'm typing. THe fact it appears instantly is good if I want to change the account to AIM from Hotmail, but if i don't the moment I send a message its gone. I don't see what the issue is!!

So you're willing to have any sort of UI appear unrequested in new message windows, with no option to disable it, as long as it disappears when you send the first reply? How about a few more buttons and panes? How about a sheet? How about a drawer? It'd obviously get annoying at some point. What's your limit?

Think about why you have a limit at all, and why this kind of thing could eventually get annoying. Those are the same reasons the bar is annoying to some people. It's all just a matter of degree.

Not any sort of UI, only ones that makes sense! This one makes sense to me, the start of the conversation is the time when you need to choose which account you are sending the message to/from hence the appearance of the bar. After you send the first message, you have made your choice, hence the reason why the bar disappears. It all makes sense.

I'm with revolution on this. Its unintrusive and rather necessary when talking to a meta contact. I have some friends who have 3 or more different screen names all logged on at once... (for example: BobAtWork, BobAtHome, BobOnCell) and it would be annoying to have to use another key combination, menu, or worst of all separate his name into 3 buddies on my list when a simple non intrusive menu allows me to choose which location to send the IM easily.

Just my 2 cents; i can see everyone's point... but incase we're taking a vote

revolution, "need to choose" is highly subjective imho. Perhaps I don't really care which account receives the message, since she's logged on to all of them anyway?

It's hard to find an equivalent example, but here's one try. Suppose setting the message font and size is really important to me. How would you like the font window to be displayed automatically each time you open a message window? It would go away when you send your first message of course. Or would you rather have it use the default (the font you used last time)?

Yes, it's a different thing, but the principle is sort of the same: Not all people will agree on what is necessary in a given situation.

I think that the bar isn't that bad, but a more intuitive way to decide the to\from accounts would be nice. as to the font example, that can be changed in the prefs ect. but how else can one choose what accounts to use? making a pref for every contact is silly, and what if I wont to use a different setting? splitting meta contacts up would be moving backwards, and getting rid of one of the coolest, must useful things in Adium. I do agree with the people saying it can get quite annoying, but I don't have a better idea of a way to handle this, if anyone does have one, I'm sure the devs would love to hear it, because I hope we all agree that just not giving users a way to decide what account to use is kinda stupid, no?

Within the metacontact, the one at the top could be the default choice. (If it isn't already?)

memark wrote:Within the metacontact, the one at the top could be the default choice. (If it isn't already?)

And in the event that the default isn't the one you want to use?

You would of course still have the option to show a selection panel, just like with fonts.

memark wrote:Within the metacontact, the one at the top could be the default choice. (If it isn't already?)

luxurychair wrote:And in the event that the default isn't the one you want to use?

Top to bottom ordering is preferred in the general case. For messaging, the last contact you messaged within the metacontact is preferred, falling back on the ordering if you have never messaged the metacontact.