AdiumX Compiled by Derf

An instant messenger which can connect to AIM, GTalk, Jabber, ICQ, and more.
Derf
Harmless
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:09 am
Contact:

Postby Derf » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:05 am

The_Tick wrote:
Derf wrote:
Paul wrote:
Derf wrote:Is Adium violating the GPL by not publicly giving out the source to their beta builds, but instead to the SVN? If so, they are as much in the wrong as me.

SVN is the source.
Not to the released, public betas. I.E. The "final" build of b1, b2, b3, b4, b5, b6....



Accusing us of not providing source and complying with the GPL is an insult at best.

svn -r 16596 co http://svn.adiumx.com/adium/trunk adium-1.0b1
svn -r 16623 co http://svn.adiumx.com/adium/trunk adium-1.0b2
svn -r 16639 co http://svn.adiumx.com/adium/trunk adium-1.0b3
svn -r 16712 co http://svn.adiumx.com/adium/trunk adium-1.0b4
svn -r 16847 co http://svn.adiumx.com/adium/trunk adium-1.0b5
svn -r 16912 co http://svn.adiumx.com/adium/trunk adium-1.0b6
svn -r 16975 co http://svn.adiumx.com/adium/trunk adium-1.0b7

Right, didn't know you could do that trick. I take back my previous statement.

It's not going to stop - so just ignore it. Source to any modified files will be available, of course, upon request, and a list of modified files will ALWAYS be available.

User avatar
The_Tick
Cocoaforge Admin
Posts: 4642
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:06 am
Contact:

Postby The_Tick » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:14 am

Derf wrote:It's not going to stop - so just ignore it.



Why not?

Derf
Harmless
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:09 am
Contact:

Postby Derf » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:16 am

The_Tick wrote:
Derf wrote:It's not going to stop - so just ignore it.



Why not?

I have complied with your demands of "add a warning that it's a nightly" and such, source will be available on request, and so will a change-log.

As such... it's perfectly fine.

User avatar
The_Tick
Cocoaforge Admin
Posts: 4642
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:06 am
Contact:

Postby The_Tick » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:16 am

Derf wrote:
The_Tick wrote:
Derf wrote:It's not going to stop - so just ignore it.



Why not?

I have complied with your demands of "add a warning that it's a nightly" and such, source will be available on request, and so will a change-log.

As such... it's perfectly fine.


Doesn't answer the question I asked.

Derf
Harmless
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:09 am
Contact:

Postby Derf » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:22 am

That is the answer. Because "I have complied with your demands of "add a warning that it's a nightly" and such, source will be available on request, and so will a change-log.

As such... it's perfectly fine.", I'm in the free to go ahead and chug along - which I will.

User avatar
Zorg
Muffin
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:27 pm
Location: Space.
Contact:

Postby Zorg » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:24 am

Derf wrote:
... it's perfectly fine.


it's not perfectly fine. Look at my previous post.

User avatar
Patr1ck
Harmless
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:50 am
Contact:

Postby Patr1ck » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:26 am

Derf, please think about what you are doing.

You are providing unsuspecting and unrealizing users (as The_Tick said, few people read warnings) with a possibly very unstable program. If it causes problems for the users – which it very well could – the developers have to deal with it, and not you, so you are creating problems for them too.

I understand you only want to help the community, and as a user I appreciate that, but please understand that this doesn't help. Please comply with the developers' requests and pull the download.

edit: spelling
Last edited by Patr1ck on Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Derf
Harmless
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:09 am
Contact:

Postby Derf » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:31 am

*sigh*. I will not be put to blame if users decide not to look at a warning - the downloads stay, and everyone has a CHOICE whether or not they'll use it. Don't use it - no problem!

User avatar
Paul
Latté
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:44 am
Location: Barrow, United Kingdom
Contact:

Postby Paul » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:41 am

Well thanks for being the cause for development time being reduced because people complain about their home directories being deleted. :)

Derf
Harmless
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:09 am
Contact:

Postby Derf » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:45 am

Paul wrote:Well thanks for being the cause for development time being reduced because people complain about their home directories being deleted. :)
Actually, you can thank the stupid people who don't READ.

User avatar
Zorg
Muffin
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:27 pm
Location: Space.
Contact:

Postby Zorg » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:46 am

Derf wrote:*sigh*. I will not be put to blame if users decide not to look at a warning


You're absolutely 100% correct here. Course you won't be put to blame. Instead, the developers will! Wonderful process, ain't it?

As for the warning, it's quite bad. You have to scroll down (edit: well I have to, as my browser doesn't take up huge amount of screen space) the page to look at it. I mean come on, with your site design, not many users will scroll down when the HUGE download link is there. And the warning is in small print, even though it's red colored, that doesn't make it much more attractive to read.

[EDIT]: It's also pretty bad to put the warning in "What is AdiumX" as most people would probably know what it is before going to your site and won't bother reading it.

User avatar
FredAkbar
Crema
Posts: 401
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Contact:

Postby FredAkbar » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:09 am

To the people who say that Derf is being annoying and should listen to the developers, I disagree. I think his behavior has been fine.

Can we at least wait until the developers do start getting a bunch of crap from people who've downloaded Derf's builds, before we jump down his throat saying it will happen? I realize it may have happened in the past, and that that's what you guys are going by, but I think it has a lot to the site's audience and its design, including appropriate warnings.

This is where I disagree with you, Derf: I think you should put warnings closer to the download link itself; like Zorg said, people might come to this site already knowing what Adium is, and not feeling like reading the "What is Adium?" section, or anything for that matter. It may arguably be their own fault, but it seems like it wouldn't be that hard (and wouldn't have to take away from your site's design) to have a better-placed warning at the top.

Has anyone complained to the guy who makes those optimized Firefox builds? He has a comments section at the bottom, and people are free to voice their concerns directly to him.

Also, why are you keeping it as a pkg? What's the point? One of the beauties of OS X is that most apps don't need, or come with, installers; you just drag them wherever you want. Having it as a pkg just makes it seem even more like you're handing them a build on a platter and that they don't need to understand what they're running.
Fred / Adium X 1.2.7
20" iMac w/ Intel Core Duo 2.0 GHz / 2 GB RAM / 256 MB Radeon X1600 / 250 GB HD / OS 10.5.4
FreeRice. Play a free vocab game on this ad-supported site to help fight world hunger.

User avatar
Zorg
Muffin
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:27 pm
Location: Space.
Contact:

Postby Zorg » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:19 am

FredAkbar wrote:
Also, why are you keeping it as a pkg? What's the point? One of the beauties of OS X is that most apps don't need, or come with, installers; you just drag them wherever you want. Having it as a pkg just makes it seem even more like you're handing them a build on a platter and that they don't need to understand what they're running.


Maybe you're missing the point where he was coming from. It is clear that he was bored and decided to do this and wanted to try out new things (like pkg and changing the about window put his name on it!), but maybe he was trying to be helpful too. But this isn't so helpful.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the developers want to take every measure into preventing users to blame their software, instead of waiting for it to happen?

Also, this is just the wrong time for nightlies. Betas are just so close to the SVN.

But I do agree that the site design is pretty nice.

User avatar
The_Tick
Cocoaforge Admin
Posts: 4642
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:06 am
Contact:

Postby The_Tick » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:23 am

Derf wrote:*sigh*. I will not be put to blame if users decide not to look at a warning


So you won't support the downloads you are providing?

User avatar
Catfish_Man
Cocoaforge Admin
Posts: 1203
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:30 am
Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

Postby Catfish_Man » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:39 am

FredAkbar wrote:Has anyone complained to the guy who makes those optimized Firefox builds? He has a comments section at the bottom, and people are free to voice their concerns directly to him.


Mozilla does not allow third parties to use their icons, so last I checked all unofficial builds had different icons to indicate that status.

Anyway, I'm inclined to let Derf continue providing builds, and if anyone complains I'll point them towards him. He's obviously unwilling to believe how silly people can be, so if there's a problem, we can bring it up again.

Also, this is just the wrong time for nightlies. Betas are just so close to the SVN.


Nah, if he'd done pre-alpha nightlies message history would have been broken, etc... these should be relatively stable and complete, since that's our focus now.

User avatar
bgannin
Growl Team
Posts: 1817
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:11 am
Location: ..here
Contact:

Postby bgannin » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:47 am

I'm still curious as to what benefit, if any, is being provided. Everyone is free to do as they please and let the world roll on as it may, I'm just wondering what benefit a user gets from downloading your Adium versus a beta [or release], now or in the future.

Ancillary question: you've said that right now your only change is the About box, and beyond that will come later. Why release something that has no effective value to build any presence for a different fork when it would be more advantageous to do so when you actually have a differentiating product to release?
Try my software!

#define ADIUMX pimp //by me
#define QUESTION ((2b) || (!2b))
Have you hugged a programmer today?

Ludge
Latté
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:20 pm
Contact:

Postby Ludge » Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:56 pm

bgannin wrote:I'm still curious as to what benefit, if any, is being provided. Everyone is free to do as they please and let the world roll on as it may, I'm just wondering what benefit a user gets from downloading your Adium versus a beta [or release], now or in the future.

Ancillary question: you've said that right now your only change is the About box, and beyond that will come later. Why release something that has no effective value to build any presence for a different fork when it would be more advantageous to do so when you actually have a differentiating product to release?


Basically, I feel the right thing to do here is to ignore this "fork" for now. It'll either die, in which case there is no problem, or it'll mature into an interesting project. Either way, there is nothing interesting happening now.
Image

User avatar
John Don
Frappa
Posts: 238
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:58 pm
Location: North Carolina

Postby John Don » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:48 pm

Derf, when one decides to step into the world of programming and releasing software for public consumption, and thus, be successful at it, there are many things one has to look at. It seems that you haven't evaluated all the possibilties.

True, most users do not read the fine print- and get themselves in a world of trouble for not doing so. Yet, a wise developer will eliminate these possible problems before they come to a head. Not simply say "well if they break it, its their fault". This is one area that could be improved.

Also, package installers are not good enough. If I can be in control of where I put a new install, I would much rather do that than have the process automated for me, unbeknownst to what was installed, and where.

Another thing you have to consider is the timing of this venture. Adium X is on the eve of a major release. Surely you realize that at this time this can only afford to complicate matters, rather than help them.

If you are still wanting to proceed forward, I suggest some sort of easily readable "unofficial" disclaimer. The average user doesn't know http://www.adiumx.com/ from http://adiumx.byethost9.com/ . You must make it known that you are in no way affiliated with the "official" development fork- that this is a personal venture, and thus, all feedback/ bugs in regards to your build must be directed to you, and only you. You have to make it known that the developers at http://www.adiumx.com/ and http://forums.cocoaforge.com/ are not to be held responsible for your build obtained at your page, nor any of your work/ modifications. This should be in bold print of some sort immediately above your "Download" icon. It is generally not good practice to put important information such as this on a lower part of the page, where a user would have to scroll to read it. Because, as we all know, chances are good that they will never even get that far. Where you have the term "AdiumX" in your forums, there is no mention that this is the "AdiumX Compiled by Derf" version. Yes, you have this at the top of the page, but then again, you also have a link to the official Adium X forum at Cocoaforge. I suggest removing the link to the "official Adium forums" in your forum, and renaming every mention of AdiumX on your forum page to signify that it is the "AdiumX Compiled by Derf". Otherwise, this can only lead to confusing users.

Adium X is definitely open source, Derf. But, if you're going to step into the open source/ public distribution fold and exist happily- conventions must be followed, or the community suffers as a whole.
I'm... kinda tired... I think I'll go home now.

-Forrest Gump


I'm an Adiumite!

MacOSX
Frappa
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:58 pm

Postby MacOSX » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:35 pm

May I just say that was beautifully said, John, and I totally agree 100% with your points. You need to make sure that it is clear that your builds are not Adium's builds.

User avatar
djmori
Mocha
Posts: 522
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:08 am
Location: Bogota, Colombia
Contact:

Postby djmori » Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:04 pm

John Don for President!


Return to “Adium”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users