cocoaforge

Adam Iser wrote: You misunderstood. In the single window screenshot, you contact list IS NOT immediately visible. In the dual window screenshot, your contact list IS immediately visible.

To make it a fair comparison, make the contact list NOT visible in both screenshots. This would involve moving the message window about 150 pixels to the left so that it covers up the contact list.

Now we have a fair comparison because both setups are showing the same amount of information. And hey, look at that, they are both using the same amount of space. You are not saving ANY space by placing the contact list in a tab on the message window that you could not have saved simply by placing the contact list window ON TOP OF the message window.

Clear?

Away messages are already visible in tooltips and on the contact list window itself. So that's also not a benefit unique to single window mode, and I would argue that that information is displayed using much less space with the current contact list than with a large single window mode contact list.

Ok, but then what is the argument for dual window mode over having each chat in its own window? Dual window doesn't show the same info as a screen full of chats does.

thejokell wrote:

Adam Iser wrote:

spaceballl wrote:If it means anything... the everything-in-one view is what brought me to Adium. I stayed with Adium because it is by far the best AIM client for OS X... that being said, I kinda wish that feature stuck around.

Why? What benefits would sticking the contact list in a tab on the message window provide for you?

What benefits does sticking chats in a tabbed window provide? Seems like the exact same argument as me... More content, one window.

Placing chats in a tabbed window provides a centralized view of conversation status. From one location a user can see the current activity in their chat windows and the status of those chats. Tabbed chats also provides greater control over keyboard navigation and ordering of chats by allowing the user to manually arrange their conversations and providing a visual representation of this arrangement. As an added bonus, placing similar windows together makes window management simpler.

The same can not be said for sticking the contact list window in a message tab...

Adam Iser wrote: Placing chats in a tabbed window provides a centralized view of conversation status. From one location a user can see the current activity in their chat windows and the status of those chats. Tabbed chats also provides greater control over keyboard navigation and ordering of chats by allowing the user to manually arrange their conversations and providing a visual representation of this arrangement. As an added bonus, placing similar windows together makes window management simpler.

The same can not be said for sticking the contact list window in a message tab...

So it seems to me that some information (other chats) is sacrificed in order to save space. The same would apply to a single window mode...

Sure it may not appeal to everyone (obviously not to you), but neither does a multi-window interface.

thejokell wrote:So it seems to me that some information (other chats) is sacrificed in order to save space. The same would apply to a single window mode...

Tabbed chatting is not about saving space. Those who look at the tabs as simply window management are overlooking some of their greatest assets.

Dual window shows less conversation than multi window, but it shows more status in a much easier to see form. Since we can only communicate with one other individual at a time (alternating after each message, if necessary), showing maximum conversation isn't a necessity while conversation status most certainly is.

This can be likened to real life conversations. If I was standing in a crowd talking to multiple people, the scenario could happen one of two ways:
A) Everyone talks to me at once and I try to make out and remember the individual conversations.
B) Everyone raises their hand when they have something to say. I pick someone with their hand raised and we exchange in brief conversation. I take turns moving from one person to another as they raise their hands.

A is your traditional IM client. B is Adium. I feel that this pattern of communication is one of the main reasons that tabbed chatting makes holding multiple simultaneous communications much simpler.

thejokell wrote:Sure it may not appeal to everyone (obviously not to you), but neither does a multi-window interface.

It doesn't appeal to me at all because it offers no advantages over dual window mode. Multi-window appeals to people who hold few simultaneous conversations and would rather engage more actively in those conversations rather than selectively move between them...

B is simply elegance in action. Well said Adam.

Adam Iser wrote:

octavius wrote:

spaceballl wrote:If it means anything... the everything-in-one view is what brought me to Adium. I stayed with Adium because it is by far the best AIM client for OS X... that being said, I kinda wish that feature stuck around.

same here.

well.. as far as the single window goes, i think that it was nice because of everything being together. just one window and everything was a compact little package. space saving aside, its not that space that was really important it was the asthetics of it. anyways, its not a feature so i guess tehre is nothing we can do but request it to be added?

A contact list equal in width to a message window is not "compact" in the least. Single window mode provides no advantages over dual window mode, and as such would be complete bload to implement.

IMing in general isnt really an advantage.. its a luxury. Although some don't like ONE window Adium, others (including myself) do. It's all preference. Who cares about size or whatever, the fact is, it was a cool feature and it's gone now.

Adam Iser wrote: This can be likened to real life conversations. If I was standing in a crowd talking to multiple people, the scenario could happen one of two ways:
A) Everyone talks to me at once and I try to make out and remember the individual conversations.
B) Everyone raises their hand when they have something to say. I pick someone with their hand raised and we exchange in brief conversation. I take turns moving from one person to another as they raise their hands.

lol, this isnt real life conversations? you just really cant compare.. its soley opinion.

either you like it or not.. no biggie. personally, it's sad to see an application turn from what one person loves.. (which i thought was the point with all the customizations) rather than for everyone. But all in all, it's still a pretty good client. i have the older version now so i'm happy.

i think i speak for lots of people (even my girlfriend likes the older one window thing) when i politely ask for the dev to add this feature back. Because all of us that would use it, would really appreciate it.

Yeah the last thing I want to do with this conversation is piss off a dev. I think Adium is a great app and I do appreciate all the hard work they do.

However regardless of quantitative benefits to a single user window, I prefer it. It's why I started to use adium in the first place. I will continue to use adium no matter what, I just think single window mode should not be something that is thrown away because there is no supposed benefit to it. The fact that there are users who loved this feature and would love to see it return should be a reason to at least *think* about bringing it back.

Regardless of what anyone says, single window mode in 1.6 was the greatest IM experience I've ever had.

(god i'm such a nerd)

Yeah I liked it a lot too . There was just something nice about having everything right there centralized... How Adium is now is fine too. It's more like AIM. Having everything in one window made it more unique. I see all the pros to a dual window design, and I don't have any solid arguments against them.. just that... if you had single window mode, i'd use it .
-Kevin

There was the start of single window mode a while back. Chris started working on it, I gave him feedback, etc.

It was not in a tab like you guys are showing here. If I do find the screenie I made from it I'll post it, but overall the feel of it was.. cluttered.

I tried this in the original Adium a long time ago as well. It wasn't as cluttered there, but it still felt.. I don't know, just not right. Some of you feel differently. Some people like eating caviar too.


I don't see this being implemented again unless someone steps up to do it. That said, I wouldn't do it how it has been mocked up here. It's a very confusing metaphor to display a tab as a contact list. The only other way I can see single window mode being implemented would be to basically super glue the contact list to the message window.


This totally kills the argument right here for me. If someone could make a mockup which doesn't make tabs become dual metaphors, and doesn't look like the contact list shoved onto the side of a message window, then maybe it would be worth looking into. But as it stands right now, this is pointless discussion.

I honestly don't see why so many people are asking for this feature. It's counter intuitive and backwards. I remember it from version 1. I would like to see a poll on this thread. Not a poll of how many people think this should be a feature, but how many people actually would actually use this feature. I argue that those who would use it are a minority, and this feature adds pointless bulk to the program. (Just a humble opinion).

wunderwood wrote:I honestly don't see why so many people are asking for this feature. It's counter intuitive and backwards. I remember it from version 1. I would like to see a poll on this thread. Not a poll of how many people think this should be a feature, but how many people actually would actually use this feature. I argue that those who would use it are a minority, and this feature adds pointless bulk to the program. (Just a humble opinion).

Pointless bulk? It would be a plugin, so if you didn't want to run it it wouldn't affect you at all.

That said, I have to agree with the Tick. Although I sorely miss the single window mode, I have yet to see a very good mockup of it's addition to the new Adium. I think this is mostly due to the tabs system Adium is using...once Adium switched to the custom tab view (the current safari-esque view) adding the buddy list as a tab never looked right...

I just wish I could make a good mockup.

i dunno, i would imagine it something like this:



i think its kinda cool, but what do i know
just something to look at and think about

octavius wrote:IMing in general isnt really an advantage.. its a luxury.

Huh?

octavius wrote:Although some don't like ONE window Adium, others (including myself) do. It's all preference. Who cares about size or whatever, the fact is, it was a cool feature and it's gone now.

Did you ever think about why it's no longer around. Possibly because it provides no advantages over dual window mode? I care about size, functionality, and benefits, because spending development time to implement, test and maintain a feature which will complicate the interface WILL NOT HAPPEN if said feature provides no benefits.

octavius wrote:lol, this isnt real life conversations? you just really cant compare.. its soley opinion.

You can compare, and I did. Real life conversations are very, very similar to IM. In this particular case, what works in real life also works in IM, and I think we've all used Adium enough to appreciate this fact and confirm that it is indeed beneficial.

octavius wrote:either you like it or not.. no biggie. personally, it's sad to see an application turn from what one person loves.. (which i thought was the point with all the customizations) rather than for everyone. But all in all, it's still a pretty good client. i have the older version now so i'm happy.

Actually, it's sad to see a user provide baseless arguments in an effort to turn an application into something for a small minority of users at the sacrifice of the extreme majority of the user base. This isn't your application, and I'm certainly not about to recommend that the team spend countless hours implementing a feature which provides no benefits over what already exists!

octavius wrote:i think i speak for lots of people (even my girlfriend likes the older one window thing) when i politely ask for the dev to add this feature back. Because all of us that would use it, would really appreciate it.

You are not asking politely. The paragraph right above this one was offensive

thejokell wrote:Pointless bulk? It would be a plugin, so if you didn't want to run it it wouldn't affect you at all.

Incorrect. It will take countless hours of developer time to implement, test, and maintain this "plugin". It will effect ALL users of Adium, even though the vast majority of them have absolutely no interest in such a window mode.

octavius wrote:

carlj7 wrote:Adium -> Preferences -> Messages -> Create new messages in tabs

違います。メッセージだけではない。バディーリストとメッセージも一緒にのウィンドーが欲しいです。

ああ、ごめんね。わかりませんでした。

（あのー、高岡市に住んどるけど、日本人じゃないし、この外国のサイトで英語を使ったほうがいいと思うね。）

laxstar wrote:i dunno, i would imagine it something like this:



i think its kinda cool, but what do i know
just something to look at and think about

That's just a message view with a contact list glued to the side and an extended toolbar. i.e. something that doesn't give any sort of benefit here.

just a thought didn't mean to ruffle any feathers

laxstar wrote:just a thought didn't mean to ruffle any feathers

ahh you didnt ruffel any feathers, this just seems like a topic that the devs put thought into a long time ago, and came to very definet conclusion on. i think the screen shot looks cool, but i can definetly see the logic behind not having a one window messanger.. it takes up SO MUCH space.. right now you dont have to have a seperate window to see what buddies you have on... model example http://img105.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img105& ... hot2ph.png
i think this is what adium is really all about, i have that thing glued to my desktop, its seamless integration .

edit: trying to get the image to show , i give... ull just have to click on the link