No logging anymore in Growl?

[artaxx]

Hi there,

I am missing one very important Growl Feature since Updating to Growl 1.x.x (don't know the last version with this feature).

The logging Feature to log any Growl Notifications in the system log.

What happened with this feature?

Greets
Daniel

[The_Tick]

It was deemed a developer type of feature, and was moved out of the UI. There is still a defaults command you can use to log, or you can use BeepHammer (you'll have to compile it) to enable logging. I don't remember the defaults command, but you can probably search the forums to find it.

[darmok]

It was deemed a developer type of feature, and was moved out of the UI. There is still a defaults command you can use to log, or you can use BeepHammer (you'll have to compile it) to enable logging.

A "developer type of feature"????? Are you kidding? *frustration*

Apparently, if you've run Growl 0.x and had logging enabled, it stays enabled when you update to Growl 1.x? But if you start with Growl 1.x, it's AWOL. Nice.

What good is a notification system that throws away the notifications before you can view them????

*frustration**2.

Tick,,, I just got told to pull Growl from another dozen Macs today. This time because the logging interface was AWOL The client doesn't like hidden interfaces, and the mismatch between the released Growl and the online docs just made him more angry.

sigh.

Why would you remove a perfectly functional feature???? Especially such and important one????

Please excuse the venting. I'm just VERY frustrated here. The lack of the interface for the logging made me look like an idiot to the client today (of course growl has logging, it works great on my mac! Never occured to me that a working interface & feature would vanish!). Between the fade problem and now this... Growl is now eye candy lite of little use. I really really like Growl. But these issues are driving me nutz!

- Dan.

[The_Tick]

To be honest, you should have validated that it was there and tried configuring it when talking to a customer with authority. Don't throw that on us, that's your fault that you stuck your foot in your mouth. You know full well that our documentation is rather lacking, there's even a thread that asks for assistance in trying to update it all that I posted a week ago that I've only had a single response on.

As to this misfeature having the ui taken away, it's perfectly valid to remove the UI for something that we decided needed to either be removed or updated. We've done that on other items as well over the course of the project, and this is the first time that anyone has said anything about any of the featuresets changing/getting removed in this manner. I don't regret the decision to remove it, only a small but vehement group of people have brought up the fact that configuring this is moved to a Developer app.

Also, if you did a search on the forums, you'd note that I would like to see this return as a *user* feature, specifically a way to display logs in a table of notifications, and replay them. If you note, the logging was in a format that was hard to read, and didn't have a UI at all, which is not anything that anyone I would consider a user would even be able to interpret.

So we have intentions of bringing it back, but in a different form, and you can enable it. You can also help us to improve Growl's documentation, and we're discussing the fade issue that you are seeing. In the future, keep the posts nice, if you need to vent go hit a punching bag, but don't use anyone working on Growl as a punching bag. I have no problems with looking into items that you have problems with, but I have plenty of problems with people who feel that they have a right to yell at other people on the internet when they a) don't know them, b) don't understand the intentions and c) don't have intentions of helping other than to complain. Not to say you fit all of those things, but reread your post and you come off that way darmok.

[darmok]

To be honest, you should have validated that it was there and tried configuring it when talking to a customer with authority.

Well, it was via the phone. I wasn't on a Mac at the time, so I flipped over to growl.info and used your doc -- which showed the logging interface.

Don't throw that on us, that's your fault that you stuck your foot in your mouth.

Never said it was your fault.

As to this misfeature having the ui taken away, it's perfectly valid to remove the UI for something that we decided needed to either be removed or updated. We've done that on other items as well over the course of the project, and this is the first time that anyone has said anything about any of the featuresets changing/getting removed in this manner.

http://growl.info/documentation/version_history.php talks about how logging has been improved but doesn't mention the removal AT ALL. If it had, I know you would have seen complaints here the day of release.
http://growl.info/documentation/develop ... istory.php doesn't mention its removal either.

Information overload ... so many products to "support". Noone has time to peruse every interface in every app, and verify them against the provided docs. The best most of us can do is to peruse the release notes / version histories. And you have to trust something, at some point.

In the future, keep the posts nice, if you need to vent ...

hey, I said sorry and just venting in the original. ...

I have no problems with looking into items that you have problems with

And I greatly appriciate that. It's just ... reading thru the threads here, esp the one re fading, there is a sense of ... donno what politically correct phrase to call it. That fading issue - 4 pages of posts, 9 *months* worth, saying the same thing over and over again, just to "convince" you that it's a problem...

Ok... well, hopefully you know what I mean. Ahm off to update some other threads etc.

[darmok]

So we have intentions of bringing it back, but in a different form, and you can enable it.

Great! Are there some "different form" details posted anywhere?

In the near term, it would be nice to just have was was there before.

Is Growl following Adium, dropping support for Tiger and moving features such as this to be Leopard only?

You can also help us to improve Growl's documentation

A possibility. I'm spread out a bit too thin right now tho to do a very good job.

Thx,
- Dan.

[The_Tick]

I have no problems with looking into items that you have problems with

And I greatly appriciate that. It's just ... reading thru the threads here, esp the one re fading, there is a sense of ... donno what politically correct phrase to call it. That fading issue - 4 pages of posts, 9 *months* worth, saying the same thing over and over again, just to "convince" you that it's a problem...

Ok... well, hopefully you know what I mean. Ahm off to update some other threads etc.

With 9 months of me telling you "I just don't see the problem, so prove it to me". I get that it's frustrating, but what else is there that I can do beyond ask you questions to perhaps help find the root cause of the problem. I still have, as of yet, to find the fade out annoying in any way. If you don't think this is frustrating to me too, then you're highly mistaken. It's a misuse of everyone's time if I didn't have a solid reason to keep asking the questions I asked (note that they were all not the same questions).

[The_Tick]

So we have intentions of bringing it back, but in a different form, and you can enable it.

Great! Are there some "different form" details posted anywhere?

Ya, probably on one of the mailing lists. It's not a lot more than "this is sort of what we'd like to see"

In the near term, it would be nice to just have was was there before.

So go run beep hammer and turn it on.

Is Growl following Adium, dropping support for Tiger and moving features such as this to be Leopard only?

Maybe, I don't know. It all depends on what we end up needing to use. At the end of the day this is a project worked on by developers, and if making things work on 10.4 becomes a hassle, I have no problems with jetisoning support for that.

You can also help us to improve Growl's documentation

A possibility. I'm spread out a bit too thin right now tho to do a very good job.

Thx,
- Dan.

It'd help. Noting problems like the above would be more beneficial than yelling about them I think.

[dlynch]

What is beep hammer? Sounds interesting...

Thanks,

--Denis

[The_Tick]

It's a developer testing tool to stress test Growl. Beep is the name of the old testing tool, BeepCocoa and BeepCarbon, to test bindings. Someone else made BeepHammer in order to start testing throughput, help find memory leaks, etc etc. The ability to enable/disable logging is also present in this utility. I believe it ships with the SDK, but if not, it's definitely in the mercurial repo.