are tabs the best/only way?

[Ethion]

Tick: The reason why I am actually opposed to this is because I am looking at this from a minimalist pov. I like a small contact list that blends into the background while still being able to read statuses and aways.
It would be possible in the big window but it would mean having a big window all the time (given that it wouldn't be collapsable to the bar) If it would be then there's only my gripe with the missing opacity as it wouldn't blend in that well.
Basically what I am also getting at is that I don't quite get the advantages of such a mockup over the current implementation. We were looking at the necessity of tabs weren't we? I don't see this problem solved well as we would basically have a bigger message window than we do now.

What about a window where you have the contact list on the left. In a big window, but when it's not active, it goes to transparent or what ever, and then hides the message view that is in the same window.

So for example. You see that you have a message from a contact. When you press the contact-list/adium it folds out into a full window. And there by you can either have it as tabs for multiple messages or on the left side. It would be like a Mail.app similarity, but it would still fold in and be minimal.

Although, I don't know if you would need coreimage to draw everything.
But what do you guys say ?

I just don't see the point. The entire reason was to get rid of the tabs but this way we have something bigger... or is the new point to get rid of the contact list? Because I don't see any benefit over tabs using this option.

I believe, that either way you do it, there will probably be some kind of tabs. If its not underneath the window or on the side.

[Diatribe]

I think it became an idea of how to get rid of the contact list

Yeah, I kinda got that feeling.

[Diatribe]

I guess what it comes down to are two things. There are more important features to integrate first (I think) and secondly if it's an option, whatever. Let everybody be happy with whatever GUI they want. I just don't like to have a "window" chat client. One of the reasons why I don't like IRC. It's humongous.

[djmori]

Are they *needed*, or would they work in the group on the buddy bar? Just a thought

That wont be a problem if a drag-out mini contact list (as ofri was talking about) is implemented.

This is not why I'm asking.

I was thinking in Diatribe's problem....

I like being able to quickly spot who is online and what their away mesage, etc. is without the clutter of a big window like that. Also I can move them to independent areas when they a separate windows. The mockups look cluttered too (well not the one that strictly separates message part and list part but the others).
I can elaborate further if needed.

If he wants to be able to check constantly the status of some of his contacts, he could use a drag out contact list right?

[The_Tick]

I think it became an idea of how to get rid of the contact list

That's a large part of it, yes

[The_Tick]

I guess what it comes down to are two things. There are more important features to integrate first (I think) and secondly if it's an option, whatever. Let everybody be happy with whatever GUI they want. I just don't like to have a "window" chat client. One of the reasons why I don't like IRC. It's humongous.

Tabs won't be going away.

Every part of a gui is modular. So imagine this gui, but with the tabs instead of the side bar. The only thing added to the window is the buddy bar now. How is it huge?

[Ethion]

I think it became an idea of how to get rid of the contact list

That's a large part of it, yes

So you think it could be workable ?

[The_Tick]

I think it became an idea of how to get rid of the contact list

That's a large part of it, yes

So you think it could be workable ?

If it weren't just a mockup, sure.

[Ethion]

ah, I guess someone needs to code it and send in a patch. Before you guys would concidering updating it.

But that's cool. You guys are doing an amazing job, and you have other prioritizes with Adium, and private life.

[Diatribe]

I guess what it comes down to are two things. There are more important features to integrate first (I think) and secondly if it's an option, whatever. Let everybody be happy with whatever GUI they want. I just don't like to have a "window" chat client. One of the reasons why I don't like IRC. It's humongous.

Tabs won't be going away.

Every part of a gui is modular. So imagine this gui, but with the tabs instead of the side bar. The only thing added to the window is the buddy bar now. How is it huge?

I guess what I mean is that you'd have a permanently visible message window as where I'd only have the message window open now when I write someone. That's why i was referring to "huge", which maybe is exaggerating a bit.

[The_Tick]

I guess what it comes down to are two things. There are more important features to integrate first (I think) and secondly if it's an option, whatever. Let everybody be happy with whatever GUI they want. I just don't like to have a "window" chat client. One of the reasons why I don't like IRC. It's humongous.

Tabs won't be going away.

Every part of a gui is modular. So imagine this gui, but with the tabs instead of the side bar. The only thing added to the window is the buddy bar now. How is it huge?

I guess what I mean is that you'd have a permanently visible message window as where I'd only have the message window open now when I write someone. That's why i was referring to "huge", which maybe is exaggerating a bit.

And you don't have the message window open when you write someone right now?

[Diatribe]

Tabs won't be going away.

Every part of a gui is modular. So imagine this gui, but with the tabs instead of the side bar. The only thing added to the window is the buddy bar now. How is it huge?

I guess what I mean is that you'd have a permanently visible message window as where I'd only have the message window open now when I write someone. That's why i was referring to "huge", which maybe is exaggerating a bit.

And you don't have the message window open when you write someone right now?

Yes, I do. But I am not writing all the time. If it would collapse then it would be like it is now. All I am saying is that I don't really see the benefit. I'd be happy if someone could explain it to me.

[The_Tick]

I guess what I mean is that you'd have a permanently visible message window as where I'd only have the message window open now when I write someone. That's why i was referring to "huge", which maybe is exaggerating a bit.

And you don't have the message window open when you write someone right now?

Yes, I do. But I am not writing all the time. If it would collapse then it would be like it is now. All I am saying is that I don't really see the benefit. I'd be happy if someone could explain it to me.

It's hard to explain to someone isn't open to listening, but I'll try.

It's to remove the need for 2 windows when the main window is the mesage window. A lot of people only need to keep track of a small group of people (3-5 from the hundreds of people I've asked, is about average). So why have this other window open when the main window would work?

I dunno, I just don't use my contact list now, it's a lot less bothersome after the first week of forcing yourself to do it. After that it's a breeze.

[Diatribe]

And you don't have the message window open when you write someone right now?

Yes, I do. But I am not writing all the time. If it would collapse then it would be like it is now. All I am saying is that I don't really see the benefit. I'd be happy if someone could explain it to me.

It's hard to explain to someone isn't open to listening, but I'll try.

It's to remove the need for 2 windows when the main window is the mesage window. A lot of people only need to keep track of a small group of people (3-5 from the hundreds of people I've asked, is about average). So why have this other window open when the main window would work?

I dunno, I just don't use my contact list now, it's a lot less bothersome after the first week of forcing yourself to do it. After that it's a breeze.

Why do you always have to be so offensive? To understand each other it always needs two people...
Anyway, if you have the message window open a lot I understand your point. If you don't however it doesn't make much sense because you are actually increasing the size of your contact list (if that is what is mainly open).

[The_Tick]

Yes, I do. But I am not writing all the time. If it would collapse then it would be like it is now. All I am saying is that I don't really see the benefit. I'd be happy if someone could explain it to me.

It's hard to explain to someone isn't open to listening, but I'll try.

It's to remove the need for 2 windows when the main window is the mesage window. A lot of people only need to keep track of a small group of people (3-5 from the hundreds of people I've asked, is about average). So why have this other window open when the main window would work?

I dunno, I just don't use my contact list now, it's a lot less bothersome after the first week of forcing yourself to do it. After that it's a breeze.

Why do you always have to be so offensive? To understand each other it always needs two people...
Anyway, if you have the message window open a lot I understand your point. If you don't however it doesn't make much sense because you are actually increasing the size of your contact list (if that is what is mainly open).

I do not see how I was offensive. You need to be less sensitive.

I do not see how you are increasing the size of your contact list. There is no longer a list.

[Diatribe]

I was just referring to you saying I wasn't open to listening...
And about the list, I thought the list would be incorporated on the left of the mockups, which would, if you had to leave the entire window open in order to see your contact's statuses, basically increase the size of your contactlist, as there would be the message window attached to it. Or the other way around however you want.

[evands]

And about the list, I thought the list would be incorporated on the left of the mockups, which would, if you had to leave the entire window open in order to see your contact's statuses, basically increase the size of your contactlist, as there would be the message window attached to it. Or the other way around however you want.

This is one of several good reasons that I wouldn't accept an implementation of this mock up that didn't allow for pulling groups or the whole list out of the Uberwindow to float individually like a traditional contact list. Such an implementation would make the contact list unnecessary for many people but it won't obsolete the concept.

[Ethion]

I was just referring to you saying I wasn't open to listening...
And about the list, I thought the list would be incorporated on the left of the mockups, which would, if you had to leave the entire window open in order to see your contact's statuses, basically increase the size of your contactlist, as there would be the message window attached to it. Or the other way around however you want.

But wouldn't my idea fit here a bit? Let's say you only have your contact list open. And you get a message you press on the contact list. And it folds into a window where you will have tabs and stuff. Then when you are finished you press a hide button or what not, and it will fold in. When you want it back up again you press on the contact list and you will have everything as you closed it.

[The_Tick]

I was just referring to you saying I wasn't open to listening...

Well, I had kinda explained everything already in this thread. It should have been apparent in the mockup otherwise. Plus you've already said you hate it, and now you are looking for a explanation of things? It seems you've already decided before actually knowing how things are supposed to function.

And about the list, I thought the list would be incorporated on the left of the mockups, which would, if you had to leave the entire window open in order to see your contact's statuses, basically increase the size of your contactlist, as there would be the message window attached to it. Or the other way around however you want.

Well, if you care about the person a lot you put them in the buddy bar. Otherwise, there is smart groups and the contacts in the buddy pane. Including smart lists like "changed status in last 10 minutes and is not away" would be useful. This seems better than a long vertical list with small names, it's easier to see the names, it has a search, and easier to see the contact pictures.


Seriously, these were mockups, nothing more.

[Diatribe]

And about the list, I thought the list would be incorporated on the left of the mockups, which would, if you had to leave the entire window open in order to see your contact's statuses, basically increase the size of your contactlist, as there would be the message window attached to it. Or the other way around however you want.

This is one of several good reasons that I wouldn't accept an implementation of this mock up that didn't allow for pulling groups or the whole list out of the Uberwindow to float individually like a traditional contact list. Such an implementation would make the contact list unnecessary for many people but it won't obsolete the concept.

The way you're describing it it would make sense. And it would be the best of both worlds, letting people choose whichever approach they like best.