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[medicine]

Back off on him guys, we want to know.

cheers theres no need for it I think you guys are alsome developers and I'm not trying to diss adium I'm simply stating what I think.

[The_Tick]

Back off on him guys, we want to know.

cheers theres no need for it I think you guys are alsome developers and I'm not trying to diss adium I'm simply stating what I think.

I know, but we really want to know.

Look at previous post by adam

[medicine]

Adium is an aqua application. It has aqua windows, aqua control sizing and placement, aqua spacing on window edges, aqua toolbars, aqua styled icons, etc.

What is your basis for claiming that Adium is neither aqua or brushed metal?

because it doesn't hold to the guide lines of either style..

Can you please provide some examples, as I have in my previous post?

Well Im not talking so much about the standard view, its views like bubbles etc that seem to just go completely in to a world of its own.

also icon sizes seem to be set to something other the default

tabing across the bottom of the app seems unnatural maybe tabs at the top? tab conners need smoothing.

icons need redoing

-----

i like customization I just think that adium has gone over kill. Im not stating I'm right and your wrong again this is just my view.

[Adam Iser]

Well Im not talking so much about the standard view, its views like bubbles etc that seem to just go completely in to a world of its own.

But proteus also has many non-standard views, some of the same ones even...

also icon sizes seem to be set to something other the default

Each protocol uses icons of a different size, so unfortunately there's no real "default" size for icons that we can use which will satisfy all protocols and users. Our current default we feel gives the best icon visibility/space compromise.

tabing across the bottom of the app seems unnatural maybe tabs at the top? tab conners need smoothing.

I'll admit tabs across the bottom are a little unique, but placing them directly next to the text input area feels very natural imo .

I also agree that tab corners could use a bit of rounding (Maybe 1-2 pixels).

i like customization I just think that adium has gone over kill. Im not stating I'm right and your wrong again this is just my view.

I understand. I guess the reason we're interested is to try and understand why Adium's customizability bothers you enough to make you not use the application.

We don't want to require our users to spend hours in Adium's preferences customizing the application.

We also strive to hide the majority of the customization behind a simplified layer. The contact list preferences are a good example of this, since Adium provides a very limited but diverse selection of styles and color themes for the user to choose. A user only delves into the depths of customization if they choose to, and a user could be completely satisfied using only the bundled styles or styles available online.

Other customization happens via packs. Emoticon packs, dock icons, status and service icon packs (in 0.8 ), etc. The user need not worry about this customization at all, and can simply use the default resources. It is only when the user goes to the adium xtras site and downloads replacements that they open up the customization.

Our goal is to provide a wealth of customization without complicating the application or turning people off with said customization. So you're claims to be turned off mean that we're failing somewhere with that goal, and I'd really appreciate your help in finding the flaw and correcting it.

I'd like to return to Evan's request from earlier, which unfortunately got lost in the discussion:

Could you cite one or two examples in which customizability of Adium either a) makes it not behave the way you want or b) makes it confusing to make it behave the way it should? Feel free to do this as regards Adium independently or, if it's easier, by comparison to Proteus.

[medicine]

Could you cite one or two examples in which customizability of Adium either

a) makes it not behave the way you want or

b) makes it confusing to make it behave the way it should? Feel free to do this as regards Adium independently or, if it's easier, by comparison to Proteus.

The more I'm typing and listen to what you guys are saying the more its making me realize that Its not the customizability that I have a problem with, its the standard view.

As you say customizability doesn't really get it the way and well It doesn't need to be touched if you don't want to.

Standard view is the thing that needs looking at I think

[The_Tick]

The more I'm typing and listen to what you guys are saying the more its making me realize that Its not the customizability that I have a problem with, its the standard view.

As you say customizability doesn't really get it the way and well It doesn't need to be touched if you don't want to.

Standard view is the thing that needs looking at I think

Ok, so what about it bothers you?

[wunderwood]

The more I'm typing and listen to what you guys are saying the more its making me realize that Its not the customizability that I have a problem with, its the standard view.

As you say customizability doesn't really get it the way and well It doesn't need to be touched if you don't want to.

Standard view is the thing that needs looking at I think

Ok, so what about it bothers you?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we are hitting on a simple problem here. I don't remember what the default message view is, but none of them seem to fit the aqua look. Adium needs to look somewhat familiar or at least not scary. Adium is a good alternative for all people that chat a lot, especial those who use different services. Because Adium has the potential for such a large audience, I think we need to figure out a message view that makes it look like an aqua app and than set is as the default. Unfortunately I don't know the programing language you need for the message view (CSS or xml or whatever it is) so I am not much help in this. Their is my 2 cents.

[BlueRevolution]

it's true that Adium's contact list leaves a lot to be desired in terms of compliance with Apple's rather rigid standards

BUT

Apple doesn't have any apps that run above other windows (iTunes excluded, it does it rather badly because it completely obscures what it's on top of) or below other windows. I think transparency is a good choice for these states since it's nice not to have your desktop and windows totally obscured. Adium's current style is very unobtrusive.

If anything, it's the message windows that need to be made more like the contact list. I'm wondering if it would be possible to make a Dashboard widget of the message window under Tiger to make it easy to flip in and out of conversations - a widget for the contact list might be worth thinking about too. The nice thing about Dashboard is that there are no real standards as to what widgets should look like, even the Apple-designed widgets have no set style beyond a loose photorealistic Aqua standard. If Adium was incorporated into the Dashboard it would be able to assert its own theme without conflicting with the rest of the operating system's style. Of course, a standard windowed version would still be needed for people still running Panther and to uphold Adium's standard of customizability.

It might help to satisfy some of Medicine's requests if there was an option in the preferences to allow an iChat-like brushed metal style... butt ugly compared to nice transparency, but whatever. Some people juggle geese.

Anyway, that's my 4¢ worth... took so long they charged me double

[evands]

By the "standard view," do you mean the way it looks before ever opening the preferences? I assume that's what you're referring to... in computer terms, you might want to say "default configuration," as that leaves less ambiguity.

If that's what you mean, are you referring to the contact list, the message window, or both?

[The_Tick]

Minimal, minus the background image, and with alternating light blue and white backgrounds would be an awesome default. I've been looking into it, but can't figure it out for the life of me.

[wunderwood]

Minimal, minus the background image, and with alternating light blue and white backgrounds would be an awesome default. I've been looking into it, but can't figure it out for the life of me.

What can't you figure out?

I think the contact list and it's default style is awsome. It's the message view that is lacking. Nothing seems to fit os x quite right. maybe the retro stuff is good, I don't know. I guess it starting to seem like splitting hairs now.

[Son of a Preacher Man]

Minimal, minus the background image, and with alternating light blue and white backgrounds would be an awesome default. I've been looking into it, but can't figure it out for the life of me.

What can't you figure out?

I think the contact list and it's default style is awsome. It's the message view that is lacking. Nothing seems to fit os x quite right. maybe the retro stuff is good, I don't know. I guess it starting to seem like splitting hairs now.

I've thought for a little while that changing the default message view might be a good idea. Retro is cool, and it's a very solid view, but it doesn't show off what Adium is capable of - and how beautiful it can look - as well as some of the others which are available.

First impressions count for an awful lot.

[evands]

We've actually removed Retro from the default install.

[Son of a Preacher Man]

Ah, I'm not an svn builder. What's the default now?

[The_Tick]

Minimal, minus the background image, and with alternating light blue and white backgrounds would be an awesome default. I've been looking into it, but can't figure it out for the life of me.

What can't you figure out?

Well, I can remove the image no problem, that's easy. But removing the dotted line and then adding a light blue background for the sender or the receiver are not my forte.

#DBE8FF is about the right color blue.

[Adam Iser]

Ah, I'm not an svn builder. What's the default now?

We haven't decided yet. In 0.7 the default was mockie, but i'm not sure if we want to default to that in .8 still or not...

[Son of a Preacher Man]

Well, I can remove the image no problem, that's easy. But removing the dotted line and then adding a light blue background for the sender or the receiver are not my forte.

#DBE8FF is about the right color blue.

Image? What image?

I assume we're talking about the message view, with the coloured names? I can make any changes you'd like, if you tell me what colour you want the names on the background.

[nanovivid]

Somebody hunt down Brad and chain him to his computer until he finishes Smooth Operator 2.0. Then make that the default.

[wunderwood]

Somebody hunt down Brad and chain him to his computer until he finishes Smooth Operator 2.0. Then make that the default.

As completely awesome as that message view is, it's not exactly aqua.

[nanovivid]

Somebody hunt down Brad and chain him to his computer until he finishes Smooth Operator 2.0. Then make that the default.

As completely awesome as that message view is, it's not exactly aqua.

Well... yeah. Hence the